General Notes

ES III:356b credits John with two illegitimate children by Agatha deFerrers
- Joan and Richard.

"Magna Charta Barons" by Charles H. Browning, copyright 1969 (I'm unsureof the overall reliability of this source), gives Joan's mother as Agathade Ferrers, daughter of Robert de Ferrers, fourth Earl of Derby.

The journal "The Plantagenet Connection" has published an ahnentafel ofElizabeth Plantagenet, wife of Henry VII, which gives Joan's mother'sname as Constance (Clementia) of Brittany. This is the same Constancewho was married to Geoffrey Plantagenet, John's brother. Considering thewell-known animosity between Constance and John and her attempts to pressher own son Arthur's interests as far as the throne of England wereconcerned (whom John murdered with his own hands) the relationship seemsunlikely. The Constance that history portrays does not seem as one whoJohn could easily seduce or coerce into bed.

Others suggest her mother was Clemantina, the wife of Henry Pinel.

Natural daughter of King John. Married during Ascensiontid e, 1206. [Ped. of Charlemagne]

Illegitimate daughter of King John who married the Welsh pr ince, Llywelyn. [Chronicle of the Royal Family, p. 52]

Illegitimate dau of King John by Clemence, possibly Clemenc e Dauntsey, wife of Nicholas de Verdun; m. Llywelyn Fawr a p Iorwerth, Prince of North Wales; m. Llywelyn Fawr ap Iorw erth, Prince of North Wales; mother of Davi, Prince of Nort h Wales. [The Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants, p. 305, 326]

Natural dau. of King John; m. Llewellyn ap Iorwerth; b. wel l before 1200, d. 30 Mar 1236 or Feb 1237; mother of Margar et. [Ancestral Roots, p. 29, 31]

Natural dau. of John Lackland, King of England; m. Llywely n ap Jorworth. [Charlemagne & Others, Chart 2936]

Dau. of King John and Agatha Ferris. [WFT Vol 5 Ped 3756]

It has been speculated that Llywelyn's wife Joan was the granddaughter of Sibyl de Braose. Sibyl's daughter, Agatha Ferrers, was certainly King John's mistress and possibly Joan 's mother. The couple may have met when Sibyl's brother Wil liam was the king's favoured companion. Another affair, be ween Joan and William de Braose (son of Reginald), underlines the intriguing complexity of family links between Llywel yn Fawr and the de Braoses. ["Barons de Braose"

Following from Leo van de Pas in a posting to soc.genealogy .medieval newsgroup, 23 Feb 1999:

I found the following about Joan bastard of England, after her death she was buried at Llanfaes but, at the dissolution of the monastery, her coffin was removed. In the 19th century it was discovered that it was being used as a horse trough. Rescued from this use, it was placed in Baron Hill Park, near Beaumaris in Anglesey. The most recent location is given as the Church of St. Mary and St. Nicholas in Beaumaris.

Following the birth of a legitimate heir, Dafydd ap Llywelyn, and a daughter, Elen (who was married off to the Norman Earl of Chester), Joan committed adultery with William de Braose or Breos, a Norman noble of south Wales who had a lied himself with Llywelyn by the marriage of his daughter , Isabella, to Llywelyn's son, Dafydd. On learning of the a ffair in 1230, Llywelyn executed de Braose and Joan was imp risoned. Some time later, she was forgiven and restored t o her position as princess, dying in 1237.

Her mother's name may have been Clemence.  She is known only from Joan's obituary in the Tewkesbury Annals, where she is mysteriously called "Regina Clementina" (Queen Clemence).  Joan seems to have spent most of her childhood in France, as King John had her brought to England from Normandy for her wedding in December 1203. (Wikipedia.org)

In April 1226 Joan obtained a papal decree from Pope Honorius III, declaring her legitimate on the basis that her parents had been unarried at the time of her birth, but without giving her a claim to the English throne.