Herbert II Count Of Vermandois 
Herbert II Count Of was born in 0884 in Vermandois, Neustria and his baptism took place in St. Quentin - son of Herbert I.1 Herbert II Count Of's father was Herbert I Count of Vermandois and his mother was Beatrice Of Morvois. His paternal grandparents were Pepin II De Vermandois and Rothaid Bobbio; his maternal grandparents were Guerri I of Morvois and Eve of Roussillon. He had a brother and two sisters, named KUNIGUNDE de, Beatrice de and Sporte. He was the second oldest of the four children. He died in St Quentin. He was buried in St Quentin.1 1 General Notes
[Joanne's Tree.1 GED.GED]
1 NAME Herbert II Count of /Vermandois/
2 SOUR S332582
3 DATA
4 TEXT Date of Import: 14 Jan 2004
1 BIRT
2 DATE 884
2 PLAC Vermandois Neustria
2 SOUR S332582
3 DATA
4 TEXT Date of Import: 14 Jan 2004
2 SOUR S332582
3 DATA
4 TEXT Date of Import: 14 Jan 2004
[daveanthes.FTW]
I wish I was sure of every name in this file & that I didnt
need to know what you think :) hey, but always refining this,
So if you spot a place where Im just flat wrong please tell
me or someone I didnt go on out with, I do this file out of fun and wanting to know, but do not
respond to the 'know it alls' , that dont have manners.I dont
consider them Kin!
Thanks and Happy Hunting!
GIVN Herbert II Count of
SURN VERMONDOIS
NSFX *
GIVN Herbert II Count of
SURN VERMANDOIS
DATE 15 Dec 2000
HIST: @@N2290@@
GIVN Herbert Ii, Count of
SURN Vermandois
AFN 9G82-J4
DATE 28 AUG 2000
TIME 22:21:58
NSFX et Troyes
TYPE Book
AUTH Stuart, Roderick W.
PERI Royalty for Commoners
EDTN 3d
PUBL Genealogical Publishing co., Inc, Baltimore, MD (1998)
ISB 0-8063-1561-X
TEXT 188-38; 231-36
TYPE Book
AUTH Å or c:Weis, Frederick Lewis
PERI Ancestral Roots
EDTN 7th
PUBL Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore, MD (1999)
TEXT 50-18; 136-18
DATE 30 MAY 2000
Count of Vermandois and Troyes.
Count of Vermandois and Troyes.
OCCU Count de Vermandois ...
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3
says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001
says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ;
SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943;
COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says
23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168
Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II
(Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother
was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W.
Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners
says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother
was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
OCCU Count de Vermandois ...
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3
says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001
says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ;
SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943;
COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says
23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168
Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II
(Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother
was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W.
Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners
says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother
was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
OCCU Count de Vermandois ...
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3
says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001
says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ;
SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943;
COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says
23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168
Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II
(Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother
was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W.
Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners
says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother
was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
OCCU Count de Vermandois ...
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3
says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001
says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ;
SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943;
COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says
23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168
Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II
(Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother
was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W.
Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners
says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother
was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
DATE 5 MAY 2000
TITL Final.ged
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TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999
TITL Final.ged
REPO
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MEDI Other
DATA
TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999
TITL Final.ged
REPO
CALN
MEDI Other
DATA
TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999
TITL Final.ged
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TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999
OCCU Ct of Vermandoisubject: Re: Burgundy, Gerberga, Manassas, etc.From: Matman <mat_man@@hotmail.com>Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:20:11 +0900Todd A. Farmerie wrote:> > addressed by Szabolcs de Vajay,
in _Annales de Bourgogne_(hereafter AB)> 34:154-69. As is typical of the author, when faced with twoconflicting> versions of a relationship (in this case regarding theancestry of> Gerberga, Queen
of Italy) he develops an entirely differentone. In> this case, he concludes that Gerberga was granddaughter ofLetaud,> daughter of his son Othon. The trouble with this, (and I realise you're not
propoundingthis personally) is that in this theory, Otto-William marries thewife of his great uncle:Letaud/Leotold etc |__________________________________| | Othon || |Gerberga
|| |Otto-William 2.m Ermentrude m.1 Alberic II of MaconVajay invented this Othon/Otto to explain why Otto II of Macon(Otto-William's grandson) calls Letaud his _atavus_ as I mentioned ina
previous post. But as the sources have Otto-William as the sonof Gerberga, there is no real need for this Othon anyway. > Here he again differs from ES, showing Geoffrey marryingfirst, the> aunt,
Aelis of Vermandois, daughter of Heribert II, and by herhavingThis would mean that Heribert II (d.943) had two daughterscalledAdelaide Adela/Aelis etc. We know one married Arnulf the Old ofFlanders
in the 930's, so any daughter of Heribert II who wasyoung enough to givebirth to Fulk the Black and co in c.970, could not have comefromthe same wife: one would have to invent another wife
orconcubine.K.F Werner mapped out the Vermandois family in 1960, and themajorityof historians have followed his version, including the ES, Ithink.Perhaps if the two theories, ie Gerberga dau of
Lambert, andGerbergadau of Leutaud/Leotold, are kept separate, it might be a bitclearer.The Lambert theory: (Bouchard, 'Sword & Mitre', Werner Die Weltals Geschicht, 1960)Robert m. Adelaide|Adela
m.1 Geoffrey m.2 Adelaide m1 Lambert | d.987 | | d.978/9| | |Fulk III Maurice _____|_________________ | | |Gerberga
Matilda Hugom1 Adalbert m Geoffrey |2 Henry of Semur|Alberic II 1m. Ermentrude m2 Otto-WilliamThe Letaud/Leotold theory:_________________________________| |Letaud/Leotold m.
Ermengarde Giselbert d.956| m. Ermengarde| || Robert 1m. Adelaide m.2 Lambert| | _______________|_____________ |__________| | | ||
Gerberga m.2 Henry m.2 Matilda || m.1 Adalbert m.2 Geoffrey || | of Semur || | |Alberic II m 1. Ermentrude m. 2 Otto-William || ____________________||
|Guy of Macon m. AelisI havn't included the idea of 2 Adelaide's daughters ofGiselbert,or Hugo of Chalons, Geoffrey of Anjou, cos of space: but itdoesn't make much difference. Matt
DATE 27 OCT 1997[Spare.FTW]
[daveanthes.FTW]
I wish I was sure of every name in this file & that I didnt
need to know what you think :) hey, but always refining this,
So if you spot a place where Im just flat wrong please tell
me or someone I didnt go on out with, I do this file out of fun and wanting to know, but do not
respond to the 'know it alls' , that dont have manners.I dont
consider them Kin!
Thanks and Happy Hunting!
GIVN Herbert II Count of
SURN VERMONDOIS
NSFX *
GIVN Herbert II Count of
SURN VERMANDOIS
DATE 15 Dec 2000
HIST: @@N2290@@
GIVN Herbert Ii, Count of
SURN Vermandois
AFN 9G82-J4
DATE 28 AUG 2000
TIME 22:21:58
NSFX et Troyes
TYPE Book
AUTH Stuart, Roderick W.
PERI Royalty for Commoners
EDTN 3d
PUBL Genealogical Publishing co., Inc, Baltimore, MD (1998)
ISB 0-8063-1561-X
TEXT 188-38; 231-36
TYPE Book
AUTH Å or c:Weis, Frederick Lewis
PERI Ancestral Roots
EDTN 7th
PUBL Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore, MD (1999)
TEXT 50-18; 136-18
DATE 30 MAY 2000
Count of Vermandois and Troyes.
Count of Vermandois and Troyes.
OCCU Count de Vermandois ...
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3
says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001
says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ;
SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943;
COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says
23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168
Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II
(Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother
was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W.
Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners
says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother
was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
OCCU Count de Vermandois ...
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3
says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001
says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ;
SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943;
COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says
23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168
Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II
(Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother
was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W.
Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners
says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother
was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
OCCU Count de Vermandois ...
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3
says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001
says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ;
SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943;
COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says
23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168
Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II
(Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother
was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W.
Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners
says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother
was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
OCCU Count de Vermandois ...
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3
says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001
says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ;
SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943;
COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says
23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168
Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II
(Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother
was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W.
Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners
says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother
was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
DATE 5 MAY 2000
TITL Final.ged
REPO
CALN
MEDI Other
DATA
TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999
TITL Final.ged
REPO
CALN
MEDI Other
DATA
TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999
TITL Final.ged
REPO
CALN
MEDI Other
DATA
TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999
TITL Final.ged
REPO
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MEDI Other
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TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999
OCCU Ct of Vermandoisubject: Re: Burgundy, Gerberga, Manassas, etc.From: Matman <mat_man@@hotmail.com>Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:20:11 +0900Todd A. Farmerie wrote:> > addressed by Szabolcs de Vajay,
in _Annales de Bourgogne_(hereafter AB)> 34:154-69. As is typical of the author, when faced with twoconflicting> versions of a relationship (in this case regarding theancestry of> Gerberga, Queen
of Italy) he develops an entirely differentone. In> this case, he concludes that Gerberga was granddaughter ofLetaud,> daughter of his son Othon. The trouble with this, (and I realise you're not
propoundingthis personally) is that in this theory, Otto-William marries thewife of his great uncle:Letaud/Leotold etc |__________________________________| | Othon || |Gerberga
|| |Otto-William 2.m Ermentrude m.1 Alberic II of MaconVajay invented this Othon/Otto to explain why Otto II of Macon(Otto-William's grandson) calls Letaud his _atavus_ as I mentioned ina
previous post. But as the sources have Otto-William as the sonof Gerberga, there is no real need for this Othon anyway. > Here he again differs from ES, showing Geoffrey marryingfirst, the> aunt,
Aelis of Vermandois, daughter of Heribert II, and by herhavingThis would mean that Heribert II (d.943) had two daughterscalledAdelaide Adela/Aelis etc. We know one married Arnulf the Old ofFlanders
in the 930's, so any daughter of Heribert II who wasyoung enough to givebirth to Fulk the Black and co in c.970, could not have comefromthe same wife: one would have to invent another wife
orconcubine.K.F Werner mapped out the Vermandois family in 1960, and themajorityof historians have followed his version, including the ES, Ithink.Perhaps if the two theories, ie Gerberga dau of
Lambert, andGerbergadau of Leutaud/Leotold, are kept separate, it might be a bitclearer.The Lambert theory: (Bouchard, 'Sword & Mitre', Werner Die Weltals Geschicht, 1960)Robert m. Adelaide|Adela
m.1 Geoffrey m.2 Adelaide m1 Lambert | d.987 | | d.978/9| | |Fulk III Maurice _____|_________________ | | |Gerberga
Matilda Hugom1 Adalbert m Geoffrey |2 Henry of Semur|Alberic II 1m. Ermentrude m2 Otto-WilliamThe Letaud/Leotold theory:_________________________________| |Letaud/Leotold m.
Ermengarde Giselbert d.956| m. Ermengarde| || Robert 1m. Adelaide m.2 Lambert| | _______________|_____________ |__________| | | ||
Gerberga m.2 Henry m.2 Matilda || m.1 Adalbert m.2 Geoffrey || | of Semur || | |Alberic II m 1. Ermentrude m. 2 Otto-William || ____________________||
|Guy of Macon m. AelisI havn't included the idea of 2 Adelaide's daughters ofGiselbert,or Hugo of Chalons, Geoffrey of Anjou, cos of space: but itdoesn't make much difference. Matt
DATE 27 OCT 1997[Spare.FTW]
[daveanthes.FTW]
I wish I was sure of every name in this file & that I didnt
need to know what you think :) hey, but always refining this,
So if you spot a place where Im just flat wrong please tell
me or someone I didnt go on out with, I do this file out of fun and wanting to know, but do not
respond to the 'know it alls' , that dont have manners.I dont
consider them Kin!
Thanks and Happy Hunting!
GIVN Herbert II Count of
SURN VERMONDOIS
NSFX *
GIVN Herbert II Count of
SURN VERMANDOIS
DATE 15 Dec 2000
HIST: @@N2290@@
GIVN Herbert Ii, Count of
SURN Vermandois
AFN 9G82-J4
DATE 28 AUG 2000
TIME 22:21:58
NSFX et Troyes
TYPE Book
AUTH Stuart, Roderick W.
PERI Royalty for Commoners
EDTN 3d
PUBL Genealogical Publishing co., Inc, Baltimore, MD (1998)
ISB 0-8063-1561-X
TEXT 188-38; 231-36
TYPE Book
AUTH Å or c:Weis, Frederick Lewis
PERI Ancestral Roots
EDTN 7th
PUBL Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore, MD (1999)
TEXT 50-18; 136-18
DATE 30 MAY 2000
Count of Vermandois and Troyes.
Count of Vermandois and Troyes.
OCCU Count de Vermandois ...
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3
says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001
says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ;
SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943;
COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says
23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168
Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II
(Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother
was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W.
Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners
says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother
was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
OCCU Count de Vermandois ...
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3
says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001
says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ;
SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943;
COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says
23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168
Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II
(Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother
was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W.
Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners
says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother
was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
OCCU Count de Vermandois ...
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3
says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001
says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ;
SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943;
COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says
23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168
Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II
(Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother
was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W.
Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners
says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother
was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
OCCU Count de Vermandois ...
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart says 880/90; members.aol.com/sargen3
says ABT 884, Vermandois, Normandy, France;gendex.com/users/daver/rigney/D0001
says 884; www.public.asu.edu/bgertz/family/d0000 ;
SOUR Americans of Royal Descent, Charles H. Browning, pp 11, 163, 467 says 943;
COMYN4.TAF (Compuserve Roots), p. 3 says ABT 943; members.aol.com/sargen3 says
23 Feb 942/943, St. Quentin; Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168
Count of Vermandois; Heribert II - 1CHARL.TXT (Compuserve); Heribert II
(Caroling) Count of Troyes - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF says mother
was Richilde - NLP; Count of Troyes - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W.
Stuart, p. 127;Count of Meaux and Soissons - p. 168; Royalty for Commoners
says mother was Beatrice de Morvois - NLP; www.rootsweb.com/gumby says mother
was Bertha de Vermandois - NPH
DATE 5 MAY 2000
TITL Final.ged
REPO
CALN
MEDI Other
DATA
TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999
TITL Final.ged
REPO
CALN
MEDI Other
DATA
TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999
TITL Final.ged
REPO
CALN
MEDI Other
DATA
TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999
TITL Final.ged
REPO
CALN
MEDI Other
DATA
TEXT Date of Import: Feb 1, 1999
OCCU Ct of Vermandoisubject: Re: Burgundy, Gerberga, Manassas, etc.From: Matman <mat_man@@hotmail.com>Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:20:11 +0900Todd A. Farmerie wrote:> > addressed by Szabolcs de Vajay,
in _Annales de Bourgogne_(hereafter AB)> 34:154-69. As is typical of the author, when faced with twoconflicting> versions of a relationship (in this case regarding theancestry of> Gerberga, Queen
of Italy) he develops an entirely differentone. In> this case, he concludes that Gerberga was granddaughter ofLetaud,> daughter of his son Othon. The trouble with this, (and I realise you're not
propoundingthis personally) is that in this theory, Otto-William marries thewife of his great uncle:Letaud/Leotold etc |__________________________________| | Othon || |Gerberga
|| |Otto-William 2.m Ermentrude m.1 Alberic II of MaconVajay invented this Othon/Otto to explain why Otto II of Macon(Otto-William's grandson) calls Letaud his _atavus_ as I mentioned ina
previous post. But as the sources have Otto-William as the sonof Gerberga, there is no real need for this Othon anyway. > Here he again differs from ES, showing Geoffrey marryingfirst, the> aunt,
Aelis of Vermandois, daughter of Heribert II, and by herhavingThis would mean that Heribert II (d.943) had two daughterscalledAdelaide Adela/Aelis etc. We know one married Arnulf the Old ofFlanders
in the 930's, so any daughter of Heribert II who wasyoung enough to givebirth to Fulk the Black and co in c.970, could not have comefromthe same wife: one would have to invent another wife
orconcubine.K.F Werner mapped out the Vermandois family in 1960, and themajorityof historians have followed his version, including the ES, Ithink.Perhaps if the two theories, ie Gerberga dau of
Lambert, andGerbergadau of Leutaud/Leotold, are kept separate, it might be a bitclearer.The Lambert theory: (Bouchard, 'Sword & Mitre', Werner Die Weltals Geschicht, 1960)Robert m. Adelaide|Adela
m.1 Geoffrey m.2 Adelaide m1 Lambert | d.987 | | d.978/9| | |Fulk III Maurice _____|_________________ | | |Gerberga
Matilda Hugom1 Adalbert m Geoffrey |2 Henry of Semur|Alberic II 1m. Ermentrude m2 Otto-WilliamThe Letaud/Leotold theory:_________________________________| |Letaud/Leotold m.
Ermengarde Giselbert d.956| m. Ermengarde| || Robert 1m. Adelaide m.2 Lambert| | _______________|_____________ |__________| | | ||
Gerberga m.2 Henry m.2 Matilda || m.1 Adalbert m.2 Geoffrey || | of Semur || | |Alberic II m 1. Ermentrude m. 2 Otto-William || ____________________||
|Guy of Macon m. AelisI havn't included the idea of 2 Adelaide's daughters ofGiselbert,or Hugo of Chalons, Geoffrey of Anjou, cos of space: but itdoesn't make much difference. Matt
DATE 27 OCT 1997
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Ancestor Pedigree Chart
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*There are earlier generations for the ancestor(s) indicated. See their page(s) for details (click name)
- b.2 APR 742 in Ingelheim, Rheinhessen, Hesse-Darmstadt d.28 JAN 813/14 in ,Aachen, Rhineland, Prussia
- b.12 APR 773 in of Aachen, Rhineland, Prussia d.8 JUL 810 in ,Milan, Milan, Italy
- b.0758 in Aachen, Rhineland, Prussia d.30 APR 783 in Thionville, Moselle, France
- b.0797 in of Vermandois, Neustria d.17 APR 818 in Milan, Italy
- b.0750 in France d.0813 in Gellone
- b.~ 0777 in Toulouse, Gascony d.BET 807 AND 871
- b.0785
- b.~ 0818 in Vermandois, Normandy, France d.0848 in Milan, Italy
- b.~ 0797 in Italy d.15 JUN 835 in in Italia
- b.0848 in Vermandois Neustria d.0902 in MURDERED
- b.~ 0735 in France d.9 OCT 768 in France
- b.~ 0765
- b.~ 0795 d.~ 0885
- b.~ 0735
- b.0760 in France
- b.0717 in France
- b.~ 0820 in France d.BET 850 AND 900
- b.0884 in Vermandois, Neustria d.23 FEB 942/43 in St Quentin
- b.0835
- b.~ 0862 in Bar-le-Duc (France) d.0908 in St. Quentin - Widow of Herbert
- b.~ 0776 in in Paris, Seine, France d.0816
- b.0782 d.~ 0816
- b.~ 0759 in Paris (Natural Daughter) of Charlemagne
- b.~ 0790 d.0877
- b.~ 0740 in of, Alsace, France d.0802 in France
- b.~ 0765 in of, Upper, Alsace, France d. in France
- b.~ 0744 in ,Upper, Alsace, France
- b.0804 in Tours, Touraine, France
- b.~ 0769 in of Tours, Indre et Loire, France d.> 0837 in France
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Herbert II Count Of and Hildebrante Princess of were married in a religious ceremony in 0907 in ,,,France.1 They had four sons and two daughters, named Albert I "The Pious" Count of, Robert, Renaud, Herbert, Countess Of Flanders and Luitgarda.
Family Notes
[Joanne's Tree.1 GED.GED]
[daveanthes.FTW]
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
REFN 3340
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168; www.rootsweb.com/gumby ;
HAWKINS.GED
CHARLEMAG.ZIP (GS), place only
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168; www.rootsweb.com/gumby ;
HAWKINS.GED
CHARLEMAG.ZIP (GS), place only
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168; www.rootsweb.com/gumby ;
HAWKINS.GED
CHARLEMAG.ZIP (GS), place only
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168; www.rootsweb.com/gumby ;
HAWKINS.GED
CHARLEMAG.ZIP (GS), place only
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural[Spare.FTW]
[daveanthes.FTW]
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
REFN 3340
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168; www.rootsweb.com/gumby ;
HAWKINS.GED
CHARLEMAG.ZIP (GS), place only
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168; www.rootsweb.com/gumby ;
HAWKINS.GED
CHARLEMAG.ZIP (GS), place only
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168; www.rootsweb.com/gumby ;
HAWKINS.GED
CHARLEMAG.ZIP (GS), place only
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168; www.rootsweb.com/gumby ;
HAWKINS.GED
CHARLEMAG.ZIP (GS), place only
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural[Spare.FTW]
[daveanthes.FTW]
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
REFN 3340
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168; www.rootsweb.com/gumby ;
HAWKINS.GED
CHARLEMAG.ZIP (GS), place only
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168; www.rootsweb.com/gumby ;
HAWKINS.GED
CHARLEMAG.ZIP (GS), place only
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168; www.rootsweb.com/gumby ;
HAWKINS.GED
CHARLEMAG.ZIP (GS), place only
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 168; www.rootsweb.com/gumby ;
HAWKINS.GED
CHARLEMAG.ZIP (GS), place only
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural
-
Children
Countess Of Flanders Alice
Countess Of Flanders was born about 0910 in Vermandois, Normandy, France.1 She died in Bruges (Belgium). She was buried in St Pierre Abby, Gand.1 1
Luitgarda De Vermandois
Luitgarda was born about 0915 in Vermandois, Normandy, France.1 She died in Blois, France - wife of Theobald. She was buried in Matemoutier Abbe, France.1 1
Albert I "The Pious" Count of Vermandois
Albert I "The Pious" Count of was born in 0920 in Vermandois, Normandy, France.1 He died in St. Quentin.1
Robert De Vermandois
Robert was born in 0920 in Vermandois, Normandy, France and his baptism took place in France - Ancient Iatinum - on the Marne.1 He died in Troyes? France (Ancient Capital of Champagne).1
Renaud De Roucy
Renaud was born in 0926 in Roucy, Aisne, France Abt 937.1 He died in 10 May 967. He was buried in Abbey of St. Remi, Rheims, Marne.1 1
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