General Notes

[jweberTYRR.ged]

The pedigree I am following is found in a posting by John Stuart to soc.genealogy.medieval.  It shows the "classic" descent of the Tyrell family of Heron Hall, Essex from Walter Tyrell, the alleged assassin of William II, which is found in a book "A Genealogical History of the Tyrrells" by Joseph Henry Tyrrell (JHT).  There are many problems with the pedigree (in fact, according to John Stuart, JHT presents three variations in his book, but the one presented here is based on visitations.)  John Stuart presents a critique with suggested alternatives based on a book "The Tyrells of England" by Dr. O. F. Brown (OFB).  I am leaving my ancestry according to JHT, even though it has obvious problems, until the pedigree questions are resolved.

The following is excerpted from the posting:

Generation 9 (JHT)
"Sir James, son of Hugh and Jane
Knighted before Ardes, 1380
Married Margaret daughter of Sir William Heron"

[As previously noted, OFB points out that in 1305 there is a James Tyrell in Essex holding property in Buttsbury, "one of the places which subsequently recur in later generations",  and who, therefore, was apparently related to the later Tyrells of Heron.  In 1318, there is a record implying a family relationship between a James Tyrell and a John Heron, presumably the initial heir of Heron Hall from Sir William Heron. Heron Hall later shows up in 1363 as clearly being held by a Thomas Tyrell.  This supports the proposition that it was this same James Tyrell who married Margaret, the daughter of Sir William Heron and the heir of her brother John, and who was closely related to the Thomas Tyrell of 1363.

The marriage of James Tyrell and Margaret Heron was supposed to have occured 'in the reign of Edward 2 or Edward 3' which, as OFB points out, is a relatively wide window extending from 1307 to 1377.  The James Tyrell of 1305 is recorded with a wife Alice in an initial document of that year, but no wife is mentioned in two subsequent documents later that same year.  Although not definitive, this permits the interpretation that James remarried Margaret Heron after the death of his first wife, Alice, sometime after early 1305 and before 1318.  Thus, the limited primary documentation does support the traditional assertion that a James Tyrell and Margaret Heron were progenitors, or at least related to the progenitors, of the Heron branch of the family.

However, OFB points out that the chronological considerations and inferential evidence indicate that the James of 1305 was born around 1265-70 and may have died about 1343 or 1344.  Clearly, this could not be the same individual referred to by JHT as being Knighted in 1380.  OFB relates evidence inferring the existence of two James, the one who probably died in 1343-44, and his presumed son, James 'the younger'.  OFB indicates that the inferential evidence as to the possible James 'the younger' stops in 1345.  It can, therefore, shed no light on the possibility that he might have subsequently been knighted.]