General Notes

Ancestral File Number:<AFN> V9TZ-64

This page is just a start. Not all information has bee varified.

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copied from soc.genealogy.medieval newsgroup:
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In a message dated 10/7/98 11:43:15 AM, allenk@@pacbell.net writes:

<<Ken, Where in Faris' Plantagenet Ancestry does it give Aelfgar III and Alvarissa Malet? I can't find those pages?>>

If this is _not_ the case, I surely want to know. I do not have a copy at my office, but my notes say the marriages of Aelfgar are found in Faris, TPA, 140:8i, 191:9, 270:9ii, 210:8.  Also Weis, MCS, 4th ed., 12-11. Ist wife Elgiva, d/o Ethelred the Unready, issue: Agatha m 1) Harald 2) Griffith ap Llewelyn, Morkere, Bouchard, Eadwine. Wife 2:  Alvarissa Malet, d/o William Malet and Elise Crispin. Issue: Lucy, m Ivo Talyboys.

Kenneth Harper Finton
Editor/ Publisher
THE PLANTAGENET CONNECTION

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also from soc.genealogy.medieval newsgroup:
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In a message dated 9/30/98 12:38:45 PM, taf2@@po.cwru.edu writes:

<< This little article by Katherine Keats-Rohan summarizes and builds upon a century's worth of progress on the issue.  While the "antecessores" clause is subject to some interpretation, this theory is preferable to the spurious and problematic Crowland charter. >>

I have received some wonderful information, both online and offline on this subject.

I see that everyone is tending to accept that Lucy is not Godiva's granddaughter and I appreciate the reasoning behind it.  Yet, two things puzzle me greatly and pull me away from this modern interpretation. One is the naming patterns in the following generations.

(1) 1 Leofric III --Lord Coventry, Earl Mercia, Leicester 1
b. 0975, of Mercia, England
d. 31 Aug 1057, Bromley, Staffordshire, England
& Godiva --Lady of Lincoln 2
b. abt 0980, of Mercia, England
d. 10 Sep 1067
m. bef 1030
(2) 1a Alfgar III --Earl Mercia* 3
d. 1062
& Alvarissa Malet
(3) 1a Lucy Talboys* 4
& Ivo Talboys --Earl of Anjou 5
(4) 1 William de Tailbois
b. of Lancaster, England
& Margaret Tailbois
(5) 1 Goditha Tailbois/Lancaster & Gilbert de Lancaster --4th Baron Kendal

Notice that Lucy's granddaughter is named Goditha.  Why, if Lucy is not Godiva's granddaughter, would her grandchild be named after Godiva? It is such a common naming pattern. If Lucy's parents were Turold the Sheriff and a daughter of William Malet, as suggested by Katherine Keats-Rohan, there would be no relationship at all with Godiva and no reason for the name to appear in the person of Lucy's granddaughter.  I realize that the name is not spelled the same, but certainly it is the same name.

Neither Lucy's birth date nor death date are known. Leofric d in 1057 at age 85. Godiva died ten years later at age 87. Their son Aelfgar died in 1062, five years before her mother. If Lucy was 15 when she had her first child, she would have been born around  1047. She would have been only 19 at the time of the Conquest.  There are no chronological problems.

_The Complete Peerage_ says: "The link between Lucy and Aelfgar is the manor of Spalding, County Lincoln, which was held by Aelfgar before the Conquest and by Lucy's first husband, Ives Taillebois (in her right), at the time of Domesday. No close family connection between Aelfgar and Lucy is mentioned in any contemporary document, and chronology is opposed to the relationship of father and daughter. Moreover, the only known children of Aelfgar are Edwin, Morcar and Aeldgitha, wife of Harold, and consequently the passing of the manor of Spalding cannot be held to justify the inference that Aelfgar (a) was father of Lucy."

The second thing that bothers m