General Notes

RELI Sources: O'shea/Charlemagne  qvcubject:    Re: Ottonian descent from CharlemagneFrom:        ntaylor@fas.harvard.edu (Nathaniel Taylor)Date:        Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:34:04 -0500In article
<33646CE8.1659@hotmail.com>, mat_man@hotmail.comwrote:> I came across this descent when i was looking up> Henry the Fowler's ancestry, in an article by E. Hlawitschka> in Rheinische
Vierteljahrblatter, 1974, p128 which I'vealready> quoted. I wonder if this descent has been accepted by the more> recent genealogical compendiums (eg. Settipani). <snip>>                
Charlemagne>          _____________|_____________________>         |     |>      Pippin IV d.810                   Louis the Pious>         |     
      |>      Aeda-Attala m. Billung            Louis the German>       b.806      |                         |>                  |                |>                 Oda m. Ludolf           
  |>                d.913|    d.866             |>                _____|__________            |>               |                |           |>            Otto            Luitgarde m. Louis II d.882>
           d.912The Hlawitschka article, "Zur Herkunft der Liudolfinger und zueinigenCorbeyer Geschichtsquellen," Rheinische Vierteljahrsblatter 98(1974),92-165, is also reprinted in his _Stirps
regia: Forschungen zuKnigtumund Fhrungsschichten im frheren Mittelalter_ (Frankfort amMain, 1988).This Carolingian-Ottonian link does not appear in Settipani's_Prehistoiredes Capetiens_ (nor in
Werner's 'Nachkommen Karls des Grossen',publishedbefore Hlawitschka's article).  Pippin's five daughters are allnoted asdead ends in both works.  The Hlawitschka article is cited bySettipani ina
footnote in his entry for Louis III (your 'Louis II' above),p. 655, n.288; he says Hlawitschka should be consulted for the Liudolfingfamily,with the addition of Brigitte Kasten, _Adalhard von
Corbie: dieBiographieeines karolingischen Politikers und Klostervorstehers_(Dsseldorf,1986), 176-207; and Winfrid Glocker, _Die Verwandten der Ottonenund ihreBedeutung in der Politik: Studien zur
Familienpolitik und zurGenealogiedes sachsischen Kaiserhauses_ (Kln, 1989).  I will look forthese to seeif either explicitly refutes Hlawitschka; otherwise, I don'tknow whySettipani would have
ignored it in his notice of the daughtersof Pippinof Italy (211-12).  It has been assumed by historians that the Ottonians had noCarolingianblood at all in the early generations, so this would
constitutea serioushistorical revision.  Has anyone found a discussion of this inrecenthistories or other genealogical compendia?Nat Taylor
DATE 2 JAN 1999