General Notes

[jweber.ged]

The following post to SGM, 16 May 1997, by Jim Stevens,  indicates some of the debate and confusion among the sources as to the parents of Gerberga.  I am sticking with Lietaud and Berta for a while, primarily because I have Dalmas as son of Geoffrey & Maud, which would make Gerberga being a sister of Maud highly unlikely.  Leo van de Pas has Gerberga as daughter of Lietaud, but by his 1st wife Ermengarde de Chalon (I believe that Gerbergas was born well after 931, as her husband, according to Leo, was b. c936).

From: Jim Stevens (jstevens@IQUEST.NET)
Subject: Parents of Gerberga, wife of Adalbert of Italy
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 1997/05/16

This is culled from postings to GEN-MEDIEVAL.  Thanks to Alan & Matt !

Stuart's "Royalty For Commoners" (94:34) calls her the "heiress of Macon . . . dau. of Othon (says ES, II:59).  NOTE: Moriarity, p.37, says parents of Gerberga were Lietaud I, Count of Macon, and Berta.  Other sources say LAMBERT, COUNT OF CHALONS and AELIZ."

"Alan B. Wilson" <abwilson@UCLINK2.BERKELEY.EDU> posted to soc.genealogy.medieval on 1 Dec 1996:
Subject:      Re: Gerberga, wife of Adalbert (was re. Welfs)

  "To further complicate matters, while both ES ii, 11 and ES ii, 59 list an Othon as father of Gerberga, the revised version of ES ii, 59 (which appears in iii(1)), and ES iii, 439 both list Letalde, Count of Macon as her father.  This agrees with Moriarty and Winkhaus.  However Joannis and de Saint-Jouan in "Les seize quartiers genealogiques des Capetiens", 469, lists Lambert de Chalon as father of Gerberga.

     If one accepts Letalde as father, there is little consensus as to Gerberga's mother.  Letalde m. (1) Ermengarde of Chalon; (2) Berta, possibly dau. of Garnier\Warinus, Count of Troyes; and (3) Richilde, dau. of Richard of Autun.  Winkhaus lists Ermengarde as Gerberga's mother; Moriarty lists Berta; and ES (in vol. iii) lists either Berta or Richilde.

   This probably doesn't help at all."

Later, on 28 Apr 1997, he added another posting:
Subject:      Re: Untangling the Burgundy web

  "Gerberga who m. Adalbert, King of Italy, is more ambiguous. ES iii, 439 lists her as daughter of Letalde, Count of Macon. This agrees with Moriarty and Winkhaus.  However Joannis and de Saint-Jouan in "Les seize quartiers genealogiques des Capetians," 469, lists Lambert of Chalon as father of Gerberga.

  To totally confuse the matter, ES ii, 59 [rev. in iii(1)] lists as the wife of Adalbert, Gerberga, known as daughter of Leotald of Macon and sister of Hugo of Chalon, Bishop of Auxerre.

  To really liven matters up, ES ii, 11 tells us that Henry, Count of Nevers and Duke of Lower Burgundy m. Gerberga of Macon, widow of Adalbert, King of Italy, dau. of Othon.

  I have a note that there is a discussion of the evidence for and the debate over the identity of the parents of Gerberge in Constance Brittain Bouchard, "Sword, Mitre and Cloister: Nobility and the Church in Burgundy, 980-1198" (Ithaca, NY: Cornell, 1987)."

Matman <mat_man@HOTMAIL.COM> posted to
soc.genealogy.medieval on 29 Apr 1997:
Subject:      Re: Untangling the Burgundy web

  "For English readers, the Bouchard article (p261ff) is essential to understanding this confusion in ES. French historians etc have peddled various theories: the ES has noted all of them, hence the internal disagreement.

  Some have favoured Leotald of Macon as the father of Gerberga, but Bouchard follows the  more reliable ones (F.Lot, R.Poupardin etc) in seeing her as the daughter of Lambert. She lists 3 children of Lambert: Gerberga (m. 1) Adalbert (2) Henry; Matilda (m. Geoffrey), Hugo of Chalon. The sources clearly state that Matilda and Hugo were children of Lambert, but they don't mention the father of Gerberga.

  The main argument for Gerberga being the daughter of Leotald is, I think, the fact that her great grandson Otto of Macon (not Otto-William) calls Leotald his _atavus_. The strict classical meaning of this is great-great-great-grandad, which would imply, that Gerberga was Leotald's grandaughter. However most who favour Leotald's parentage, have overlooked this inconvenient detail, and suggested that the term here just means distant ancestor.

  The other evidence is the Life of Hugo of Chalon (d.1039) who says that his sister married the duke of Burgundy. This has been seen as Gerberga wife of Henry (d.1002). Those who favour Leotald as her father, say this sister was Matilda, who they say married Henry before she married Geoffrey of Semur. Thus if one rejects Lambert as the father of Gerberga, you have to invent a new wife for Duke Henry. I think ES III, 433-34 has these two marriages. Somewhere else in ES, it even gives this supposed marriage of Matilda and Henry a daughter, Aremburga, the wife of Dalmas I of Semur.

  I havn't gone into all the various arguments, or evidence: its best to read Bouchard yourself, and decide whether you agree with her. Personally I prefer her no-nonsense approach, and the works of other notable historians (eg W.Kienast Die Herzogtitel in Frankreich & Deutschland, 1968) agree with her on the father of Gerberga being Lambert."

There is conflicting information about Gergerga.  WFT 22, Tree #1246shows her father as Letald, Count Macon, while WFT 12, Tree #0472 showsher father as Otto, Count de Macon and her grandfather as Letalde, Courtof Macon.  The two trees show wifferent wives for Letald, Count Macon -WFT 12, Tree #0472 shoas Ermengarde of Chalons, while WFT 22, Tree #1246shows Adelaide Adelais.  The two women have different ancestors.  Thistree follows WFT 22, but is it correct?

Maloney, Hendrick &amp; Others - J. H. Maloney