General Notes

Curt Hofemann, curt_hofemann@@yahoo.com, writes in a post-em:

Hi Jim,
Re: Enguerrand d. BEF 1004.
Moriarty shows he married Adele 1033 (p113) or after 1033 (p55).  This would of course affect your estimated dates of birth of his children.

His date of death is:
Abt Sep 20 1045 [Ref: Watney p799]
(1045) [Ref: ES II:2] 20 or 21.IX .... [Ref: ES III:635]
abt 1045 [Ref: Moriarty p55]
25 Oct 1053 [Ref: Wm Conqueror]

ES = Europaische Stammtafeln (usually the best ref. for European non-English ancestries).
Moriarty = The Plantagenet Ancestry of King Edward III and Queen Philippa
Watney = The Wallop Family and their Ancestry
Wm. Conqueror = William The Conqueror, The Norman Impact Upon England, David C. Douglas

Other notes:
Attempted to take advantage of the Duke William of Normandy's (the Conqueror) weaker position and lost in battle near the fortresss of Arques. [Ref: Wm Conqueror]

According to later a chronicler (rec. Hist. Franc., vol XI, p. 330) the dying cries of Enguerrand were heard by his sister on the walls of Arques.  It is a good story which might even be true, for less than a mile separates the castle from Saint-Aubin-sur-Scie, and the exact site of the engagement is unknown. [Ref: 48 Wm Conqueror, pg 66]

Also ES II:11 gives his mother Gisele's b. as (970) = circa 970.  That combined with a marriage date of circa 1033 makes Enguerrand birth date of 980 pretty shakey.

Regards,

Curt

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Note: In terms of the death date (25 Oct 1053) at the siege of Arques, I think Curt is referring to Enguerrand II, d. 1053 at the siege of Arque, whom I have as the grandson.  Maybe the grandson is the Enguerrand who m. Adele in 1333/4, as his 1st wife, before marrying Adelaid, sister of William I.

Note: Curt's source must have Adele marrying Enguerrand as her 2nd husband, and not as her 1st, as I show it.  This may be true, but their supposed son Hugh must have been born well before 1033/4 (probably around 1000) because Hugh (Adele & Enguerrand's son) d. 20 Nov 1052.  He would have been born in 1333/4 and be 18 or 19 years old, possible however unlikely.  However AR & CP have Hugh's son Enguerrand II, dead at a siege in 1053; this is impossible if his father wasn't born until 1033/4, because he could be at most 6 or 7 years old, assuming his father sired him when only 12 or 13 years old.  Enguerrand II married Adelaide, the sister of William the Conqueror and had at least one child before his death, which clearly could not have been at the age of 6 or 7. 

This leaves at least 4 possibilities: (1) Hugh, b. c 997, is not a son of Enguerrand I, maybe his brother; (2) Hugh is the son of Enguerrand by an unknown 1st wife (prior to Adlele); (3) Adele did not marry Enguerrand I, but his grandson Enguerrand II as mentioned above; (4) Curt's or my sources are incorrect (I think least likely of the 4 possibilities).  I will use possibility (2) until I can get more information about which of the 4 possibilities are true.

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