1535944

[charlemegne.FTW]

Alberic I, Comte de Dammartin-en-Goele

Regarding his wife, mother of Alberic II, who was apparently nei ther Clemence of Bar nor Joan Bassett:
To see what is behind this, you have to know the history of th e question. Specifically, no one knew how it was that Alberi c I came to
be Count of Dammartin (even now there are two competing theories , but I didn't call you on that since you show one of the vali d alternatives). The descent from founder Manasses is clear dow n to the generation of Alberic, but the last of his predicessors , Lancelin, died s.p., while still quite young. Then there i s a period of confusion, and finally you have Alberic (in fact , early on it was not even clear that there were two and not jus t one Alberic). Throughout this period, you find record of a Cl emence, 'Countess of Dammartin'. The earliest reconstructions t ook the easy solution, making Clemence sister of the Lancelin, a nd wife of Alberic I, and by him had son Alberic II, who marrie d Matilda.

A closer look at Clemence caused a slight change - it was discov ered that she was widow of the previous (child) Count of Dammart in, a daughter of the Count of Bar, and had subsequently marrie d Renaud, Count of Clermont. Again, a quick reconstruction wa s done, giving her three husbands, Lancelin, Renaud, and Alberi c I. Next in the "whoops" chain was the realization that she wa s married to Renaud during the period that the reconstruction ca lled for her to be married to Alberic I and having Alberic II, a nd there was no way to fit both marriages in.
Likewise, it was found that Matilda, wife of Alberic II, was dau ghter of
Clemence by Renaud. Finally someone returned to the fact that t here was no actual evidence that Clemence ever married Alberic I . She was
certainly calling herself Countess of Dammartin, but this was pr obably
due to her previous marriage to the child Lancelin (and in ligh t of the
disputed subsequent succession, she had as good a claim to the t itle as
the next person). Likewise, it would have been unlikely for Alb eric to
have derived his claim from being a later husband of the widow o f the
previous Count, so the search began for an alternative claim fo r Alberic
which did not involve Clemence. It produced two alternatives, o ne, the
Mello descent, is the one which you follow. The other traces i n the
direct male line from a younger son of a previous Count, who ha d settled in England.

I lay this out to document how Clemence of Bar, Countess of Damm artin, came to be misassociated with Alberic I. As I stated, th ere is no evidence (and never was) that Alberic actually had a w ife of this name, while it is clear that the 'Countess of Dammar tin' is identical to the wife of Renaud. It is only by combinin g (and confusing) competing
theories that they show up as two women (note that ES has severa l of
these errors, where in one place he follows a new reconstruction , while
on the connecting page he still has the old, and you end up wit h confusion).

What are we left with? The only documented wife for Alberic I i s Joan
Basset, but he did not marry her until after Alberic II was bor n (based
on him appearing in documents, seemingly as an adult, shortly
thereafter). She has only been named as Alberic II's mother bas ed on
the realization that Clemence could not have been, and she was A lberic
I's only other wife, but without looking at the chronology (thi s error
is now widespread since it appeared in RFC). - TAF

Records not imported into INDI (individual) Gramps ID I8747:

Line ignored as not understood Line 179632: 2 SOUR @S159427@
Skipped subordinate line Line 179633: 3 DATA
Skipped subordinate line Line 179634: 4 TEXT Date of Import: Sep 24, 2000