Saier De Quincy

• General Notes
  • A.      EARLS of WINCHESTER 1207-1264 (QUINCY)
    
    SAHER de Quincy, son of --- (-[1156/58]).  He held land at Long Buckley, Northamptonshire in [1124/29][5].  “Seherus de Quinci” donated property to Dunmow Priory, for the soul of “Saheri filii mei”, by undated charter witnessed by “Richardus, et Quincy…”[6].  The 1157 Pipe Roll records "Sahero de Quenci" in Northamptonshire under "Nova Placita & Noue Conuentiones"[7].
    
    m (after 1136) as her second husband, MAUD de Senlis, widow of ROBERT FitzRichard de Clare, daughter of SIMON de Senlis Earl of Huntingdon and Northampton & his wife Matilda [Maud] of Huntingdon (-before 1163).  A manuscript history of the foundation of Dunmow Priory records the death in 1140 of “Matildis de Sancto Licio uxor Roberti filii Ricardi”, although the dating of events in this source appears shaky[8].
    
    Saher & his wife had [three] children:
    
    1.         SAHER ([1138]-[1190/92]).  “Seherus de Quinci” donated property to Dunmow Priory, for the soul of “Saheri filii mei”, by undated charter witnessed by “Richardus, et Quincy…”[9].  Military fee certifications in the Red Book of the Exchequer, in 1166, record that "Saerius de Quincy" held one and one half knights´ fees from "Roberti de Chokes" in Northamptonshire[10].  m (1163) as her second husband, ASCELINE Peverel, widow of GEOFFREY de Waterville [Wateville], daughter of ROBERT [Pain] Peverel & his wife [Adelisia ---] (-before 1190).  A manuscript history of the foundation of Barwell Priory names “quatuor sorores…Pagani filias…primogenita Mathildis de Doure…Alicia…Roisia…Ascelina de Waterville” as the heiresses of “Gul. Peverell filius Pagani”, adding that Asceline was mother of “duæ filiæ…Ascelina de Waterville et Matildis de Diva”[11].  "Willielmus Peverel de Dovera" donated Bradford mill, donated by "dominus Walchelinus Maminot" for the soul of "Rogeri de Haia", to Haughmond abbey by charter dated to [1141/48], witnessed by "…Matilla mea conjuge, Matilla de Dovera mea sorore, Acelina mea sorore…"[12].  "G. de Waltervilla" granted his part of "Herchalun…et…meam partem de feudo Hugonis de Laci" to "Willielmo de Hetlehe", with the consent of "Acelinæ uxoris meæ et Radulfi filii mei", by charter dated to [1155/62], which names "Hamo Piperellus avunculus uxoris meæ"[13].  The primary source which confirms her second marriage has not yet been identified.   Saher & his wife had one child:
    
    a)         SAHER (-[1190/92]).  The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified.
    
    2.         ROBERT ([1140]-1197).  He went to Scotland and through his first marriage obtained lands in Fife, Perth and Lothian, and was granted the castle of Forfar by his cousin (through his mother) William "the Lion" King of Scotland.  He accompanied Richard I King of England on crusade in 1190 and participated in the capture of Antioch in Jul 1191[14].  The Red Book of the Exchequer, listing scutage payments in [1194/95], records "in perdonis Roberto de Quency, xl s de scutagio suo de Bukkeby" in Northamptonshire and granted delay in payment per brevia in Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire[15].  m firstly ([1160/70], separated) as her first husband, ORABILIS, daughter of NES of Mar (son of WILLIAM of Leuchars) & his wife --- (-1203).  The primary source which confirms her parentage and two marriages has not yet been identified.   She married secondly Gilchrist Earl of Mar.  m secondly as her first husband, EVE, daughter of ---.  She names herself as widow of Robert in her (undated) charter to Melrose Abbey[16].  She married secondly Walter de Berkeley.  The primary source which confirms her second marriage has not yet been identified.   Robert & his first wife had one child:
    
    a)         SAHER de Quincy ([1165/70]-Damietta 3 Nov 1219, bur Acre).  The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified.   He was created Earl of Winchester before 10 Feb 1207.
    
    -        see below.
    
    3.         [17][JUETA [Judith] .  m ROBERT FitzLancelin .]
    
    SAHER de Quincy, son of ROBERT de Quincy & his first wife Orabilis of Mar ([1165/70]-Damietta 3 Nov 1219, bur Acre).  The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified.   He was created Earl of Winchester before 10 Feb 1207.  He supported the barons against King John and was one of the 25 men chosen in Jun 1215 to enforce obedience of Magna Carta, being excommunicated by the Pope in Dec 1215.  He went with Robert FitzWalter to invite Louis de France to England in early 1216, his lands being seized by King John as a consequence and granted to William Marshal, son of the Earl of Pembroke.  He returned to the allegiance of King Henry III in Sep 1217 and his lands were restored to him 29 Sep 1217.  He joined the Crusade in 1219 and died at the siege of Damietta[18].  The Annals of Dunstable record that “comes Wintoniæ” took the cross in 1219 but died, adding in a later passage that he died in 1220[19].  The Chronicle of Ralph of Coggeshall records the death in 1220 of "Saerus de Quenci comes Wintoniensis" while on pilgrimage to Jerusalem[20].
    
    m (before 1190) MARGARET of Leicester, daughter of ROBERT de Beaumont Earl of Leicester & his wife Pernelle de Grantmesnil ([before 1172][21]-12 Jan or 12 Feb 1235).  A history of the foundation of St Mary´s abbey, Leicester names “Amiciam primogenitam…et Margaritam juniorem” as the two daughters of “Robertus” and his wife “Petronillam filiam Hugonis de Grantmenyl”, adding that Margaret married “Sayero de Quincy”[22].  A charter of King Edward I confirmed donations to Garendon Abbey among which by “Margareta…comitissa Wyntoniæ, soror Roberti comitis Leycestriæ”[23].  The necrology of the monastery of Ouche records the death "12 Jan" of "Margarita comitissa Wintonyæ"[24].
    
    Saher & his wife had [seven] children:
    
    1.         ROBERT ([1187/90][25]-London 1217).  The husband of Hawise of Chester was, according to the Complete Peerage, either Robert son of Robert de Quincy[26] (about whose existence there appears to be no other evidence) or Robert eldest son of Saher de Quincy Earl of Winchester[27].  However, the (undated) charter of Saher Earl of Winchester, relating to the grant of Bukby, Grantesset, Bradcham and Herdwick resolves the matter conclusively as it clearly states that Hawise was the wife of his eldest son Robert[28].  Robert was excommunicated with his father in Dec 1215.  The Annals of Waverley record the death in 1217 of “Robertus de Quinci, filius Seeri de Quinci”[29].  He was accidentally poisoned through medicine prepared by a Cistercian monk[30].  m (before 1208) HAWISE of Chester, daughter of HUGH Earl of Chester & his wife Bertrade de Montfort ([1175/81][31]-[6 Jun 1241/3 Mar 1243).  The Annales Londonienses record that "Ranulphus comes Cestriæ" had four sisters, of whom "quarta…Hawisia" married "Roberto de Quenci"[32].  Ctss of Lincoln [Apr 1231/1232] on the resignation of her brother of this Earldom in her favour[33].  Robert & his wife had one child:
    
    a)         MARGARET (before 1208[34]-Hampstead Mar 1266, bur Clerkenwell, Church of the Hospitallers).  The Annales Londonienses name "Margaretam…comitissa Lincolniæ" as the daughter of "Hawisia…de Roberto de Quency"[35].  A manuscript narrating the descent of Hugh Earl of Chester to Alice Ctss of Lincoln records that “Johanni de Laci constabulario Cestriæ” married “Roberto de Quincy…filiam Margaretam comitissam Lincolniæ”[36].  A manuscript history of the Lacy family records that “Johannes de Lacy primus comes Lincolniæ” married “Margaretam filiam Roberti Quincy comitis Wintoniæ nepotem Ranulphi comitis Cestriæ” after the death of his first wife[37].  The Annals of Tewkesbury record the marriage “circa Epiphaniam Domini” in 1241 of “Walterus Marescallus comes” and “comitissam Lincolniæ…Margeriam, uxorem quondam Johannis comitis Lincolniæ”[38].  The primary source which confirms her third marriage has not yet been identified.   The Annals of Worcester record the death in 1266 of “Margareta comitissa Lincolniæ”[39].  The Annals of Winchester record the death “apud Hamstede” in 1266 of “Margareta comitissa Lyncollniæ”[40].  m firstly (before 1221) as his second wife, JOHN de Lacy, son of ROGER de Lacy & his wife Maud de Clare ([1192]-22 Jul 1240, bur Stanlaw, later transferred to Whalley).  He was created Earl of Lincoln in 1232.  m secondly (6 Jan 1242) WALTER Marshal Earl of Pembroke, son of WILLIAM Marshal Earl of Pembroke & his wife Isabel Ctss of Pembroke (after 1198-1245).  m thirdly (before 7 Jun 1252) RICHARD de Wilteshir .
    
    2.         ROGER de Quincy (-25 Apr 1264, bur [Brackley]).  He succeeded his father in 1219 as Earl of Winchester, but was not recognised as such until after his mother's death[41].  He succeeded his father-in-law in 1234 as hereditary Constable of Scotland, de iure uxoris.  His Earldom reverted to the crown on his death.  m firstly HELEN of Galloway, daughter of ALAN Lord of Galloway & his first wife Helen de l'Isle (-after 21 Nov 1245, bur Brackley).  The Annales Londonienses name "Eleyn countesse de Wynton" as eldest of the three daughters of "la primere fille Davi" and "Aleyn de Gavei", naming "Margarete countesse de Ferreres et Eleyne la Zusche et la countesse de Bougham" as her three daughters[42].  Earl Roger's first marriage with the daughter of Alan of Galloway is recorded by Matthew of Paris[43].  The Liber Pluscardensis records that the eldest daughter of "Alanus de Galway filius Rotholandi de Galway" married "Rogerus de Quinci comes Wintoniæ"[44].  m secondly (before 5 Jun 1250) as her second husband, MAUD de Bohun, widow of ANSELM Marshal Earl of Pembroke, daughter of HUMPHREY de Bohun Earl of Hereford and Essex & his wife Maud de Mandeville (-Groby, Lincolnshire 20 Oct 1252, bur Brackley41).  Her death is recorded by Matthew of Paris, who states that she was daughter of the Earl of Hereford but does not give her own name, that she was her husband's second wife[45].  m thirdly (before 5 Dec 1252) as her second husband, ELEANOR Ferrers, widow of WILLIAM de Vaux, daughter of WILLIAM de Ferrers Earl of Derby & his first wife Sibyl Marshal of Pembroke (-before 26 Oct 1274, bur Leeds Priory).  The Chronicle of Tintern Abbey, Monmouthshire names "Agnes, secunda Isabella, tertia Matilda, quarta Sibilla, quinta Johanna, sexta Alianora, septima Agatha" as the seven daughters of "Willielmo de Ferrers comiti Derbiæ" and his wife "quarta filia…Willihelmi Marescalli…Sibilla", adding that "Alianora sexta filia" was "comitissa de Wintonia" and died childless[46].  The Annals of Ireland record that “Sibilla comitissa de Ferreys” had seven daughters (in order) “quinta, Elianora de Varis, quæ fuit uxor comitis Wintonie…”[47].  Matthew of Paris records her husband's remarriage soon after the death of his second wife, but does not name his third wife[48].  She married thirdly (1267) as his second wife, Roger de Leyburn.  Earl Roger & his first wife had three children:
    
    a)         MARGARET de Quincy (-before 12 Mar 1281).  The Annales Londonienses name "Margarete countesse de Ferreres et Eleyne la Zusche et la countesse de Bougham" as the three daughters of "Eleyn countesse de Wynton"[49].  m ([1238]) as his second wife, WILLIAM de Ferrers, son of WILLIAM de Ferrers Earl of Derby & his wife Agnes of Chester (-May 1254, bur Merevale Abbey).  He succeeded his father in 1247 as Earl of Derby.
    
    b)         ELIZABETH de Quincy .  The Annales Londonienses name "Margarete countesse de Ferreres et Eleyne la Zusche et la countesse de Bougham" as the three daughters of "Eleyn countesse de Wynton"[50].  m ALEXANDER Comyn Earl of Buchan, son of WILLIAM Comyn Earl of Buchan & his wife Margaret Ctss of Buchan (-before 6 Apr 1290).
    
    c)         ELENA de Quincy (-before 20 Aug 1296).  The Annales Londonienses name "Margarete countesse de Ferreres et Eleyne la Zusche et la countesse de Bougham" as the three daughters of "Eleyn countesse de Wynton", naming "Roger la Zusche" as son of "Eleyne la Zusche" and "de Roger, Aleyn"[51].  m ALAN la Zouche [Justiciar of Ireland], son of ROGER la Zouche & his wife Margaret --- (-killed in battle London 10 Aug 1270).
    
    3.         HAWISE ([1200/12][52]-3 Feb after 1263, bur Earl's Colne).  The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified.   m (after 11 Feb 1223) HUGH de Vere Earl of Oxford, son of ROBERT de Vere Earl of Oxford & his wife Isabel de Bolebec ([1210]-before 23 Dec 1263, bur Earl's Colne).
    
    4.         LORETA .  The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified.   m WILLIAM de Valognes of Panmure, co. Forfar, Chamberlain of Scotland, son of PHILIP de Valognes & his wife --- (-1219).
    
    5.         ROBERT ([1217/19][53]-Aug 1257).  The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified.   m (1237 before 5 Dec) as her second husband, HELEN of Wales, widow of JOHN "le Scot" Earl of Huntingdon and Chester, daughter of LLYWELLYN ap Iorwerth Fawr ("the Great") Prince of Wales & his second wife Joan [illegitimate daughter of John King of England] (-1253 before 24 Oct).  The Annals of Dunstable record that “Johannes comes Cestriæ” died in 1237 and “eius uxor…filia Lewelini” married “Roberto [de Quinci]” against her father´s wishes[54].  The primary source which confirms her name has not yet been identified.  Robert & his wife had three children:
    
    a)         ANNE .  The primary source which confirms her parentage has not yet been identified.   A nun.
    
    b)         JOAN de Quincy (-25 Nov 1285).  The primary source which confirms her parentage and marriage has not yet been identified.   m as his second wife, HUMPHREY de Bohun, son of HUMPHREY de Bohun Earl of Hereford and Essex & his first wife Maud de Lusignan (-Beeston Castle, Cheshire 27 Oct 1265, bur Combermere Abbey).
    
    c)         HAWISE ([1250]-before 27 Mar 1285).  m (before 5 Feb 1268) as his second wife, BALDWIN Wake, son of HUGH Wake & his wife Joan de Stuteville ([1237/38]-before 10 Feb 1282).
    
    6.         JOHN .  He is mentioned in the Brackley charters[55].  His position in the order of birth of his siblings is unknown, but he may have been older than his brother Robert (the younger) if the speculation about the latter's date of birth (see above) is correct.
    
    7.         ORABILIS .  A manuscript relating to Ranton Priory, Staffordshire records that “Ricardo de Harecourt” married “Orabillam sororem Rogeri de Quinci”, and lists their descendants[56].  m RICHARD de Harcourt, son of WILLIAM de Harcourt of Ellenhall, Staffordshire & his wife Alice Noel.