JOHN ??????NOT SURE FATHER PAYNE

• Death Notes
  • John Payne B: 1649
    New Haven,New Haven,Connecticut,USA
    D: 1729-06-04
    New Haven,New Haven,Connecticut,USA
    
    

• General Notes
  • THE LOHN PAYNE OR PAINE WHO MARRIED HAD NO SON WILLIAM AND DIED IN 1707
    
    Spouses:  Abigail BROCKETT --1673--, Mary HALL -1676-, Jemima ALSOP 1692-, Mary LITTLE  -1699-
    OTHERS SAY SPOUSE MARY LITTLE B: 1669-07-28
    New Haven,New
    ABIGAIL BROCKETT 10 March 1650 -- New Haven, New Haven, CT
    Death: 4 July 1729
    JEMIMA ALSOP--Birth: 10 Feb 1670 in , New Haven, New Haven, Connecticut
    Father: Joseph ALSOP b: 18 Jan 1621 in Dale, Derby, Derbyshire, England
    Mother: Elizabeth PRESTON b: 18 Jan 1624 in Of, Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England
    Name: Joseph ALSOP
    Given Name: Joseph
    Surname: Alsop
    Sex: M
    Birth: 18 Jan 1621 in Dale, Derby, Derbyshire, England
    Death: 8 Nov 1698 in , New Haven, New Haven, Connecticut
    
    
    
    Father: John ALSOPP b: 1595 in Of, Alsop-En-Le-Dale, Derbyshire, England
    Mother: Temperance GILBERT b: Abt 1600 in Of, Mickleover, Derbyshire, Engl
    Haven,Connecticut,USA
    Elizabeth PRESTON
    Given Name: Elizabeth
    Surname: Preston
    Sex: F
    Birth: 18 Jan 1624 in Of, Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England
    Christening: 18 Jan 1623 Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England
    Death: 29 Aug 1693 in New Haven, New Haven, , CT
    Ancestral File #: 49DJ-4V
    Change Date: 2 May 2004 at 08:42
    
    Father: William PRESTON b: 23 Jan 1590
    Mother: Mary SEABROOK b: 1601
    
    
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    Paine, John - Estate inventory taken 1703:
    
    Probably John-2, John-2, Thomas-1 (of Salem)
    The "Southold Branch of the Paine Family" (Horace Paine) reports the estate of a John Paine was taken 3 Sep 1703, in Southold, by Stephen Bayley & Benjamin Young, and gives details of that inventory. The primary asset was a sloop, valued at 80 pds, roughly one third of the estate, a slave and her child, - but no real estate showing in this inventory - which may have only been intended to inventory "personal" property, not real estate.
    
    He goes on to say this John Paine was aged 30 years, without giving a source. I have not found a source for that age (from tombstone or estimated by author?) - and it becomes a real problem in trying to assign that date of death.
    
    This Paine Genealogy assigns this death date to this John-3, John-2, Thomas-1 (of Salem). However, he gives this John the wife of Jemima Alsop and then he gives the kids of John & Jemima, both in the 1698 census and in his 1707 will, to another John.
    
    This death date may very well belong to John-3, John-2, Thomas-1, but he was not married to Jemima Alsop. That John didn't write his will till 1707 (See wills.)
    
    That John would be the one called "John, Junr" in the Southold 1698 census and having wife Sarah and sons, or grandsons, John & Nathaniel, in his household.
    
    However, the age of 30 then becomes a problem, as a Sarah Paine, date of death 1716, age 76 = born 1640. (Ancient Burial-Grounds of Long Island, NEHGR 53:325-334, 1899,  (Edw. Doubleday Harris), 334, "Here lyeth the Body of Sarah the wife of John Paine who dyed in the 76 year of her age Septembr 3d 1716").
    
    .That is what gives rise to the possibility that these boys may be grandsons. Or, perhaps this John is widowed and the Sarah is his widowed mother. The caution against this line of reasoning is that the census taker seemed to be careful to call widows "widow" and did not here.
    
    The assignment of this date of death is somewhat crucial in determining who John Paine, of Wading River, was.
    
    There are four Johns in the 1698 census.
    
    1 - John Paine who married Jemima Alsop wrote his will 1707, so the 1703 estate inventory is not his.
    2 - John Paine, brother of  Nathaniel, executed a real estate deed with Nathaniel in 1709, so it isn't his.
    3 - John Paine, son of John-3 (Peter-2, Thomas-1) was almost certainly from second wife, Jemima, as he is listed last in list of children in 1698 Southold Census, and he is thusly ruled out.
    
    That leaves, of the John Paines we are aware of from the 1698 census, the John, Junr, head of household with wife Sarah and sons John & Nathaniel. He should be considerably older than 30, by my estimation - and if the Sarah, died 1716, age 76 (would be born 1640), is his wife. I can only conclude that Horace Paine estimated his age and it is different than my estimate, since he does not give a source for the age. He is thought to be: John-3, John-2, Thomas-1 (of Salem).
    
    
    
    
    
    
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    I am presenting this information so that anyone with additional info can make contributions or corrections to this genealogy - please don't hesitate to drop me an e-mail with any comments.
    Norris Taylor - E-Mail
    
    Copyright, Norris Taylor, 2000
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    Paine - Pain
    
    Thomas  (61)
    Follows the Emmons family and precedes the John Tuthill family
    Salmon Death Record: "Jan 14, 1724/5, Tom Pain at Shelter Island died." might be this fellow. Placement in the Paine Genealogy is unknown to me. He could be a son or grandson of John-2 or Peter-2; or he could be from Cornelius - who had a family in the 1686 census and is not in the 1698 census.
    It is interesting to note that either John Paine of Wading River, or his wife, had some kind of connection with the Emmons family that extended through 1800... being neighbors, signing each other's wills, etc. The existence of a Thomas Paine in this Emmons household is very intriguing, given the closeness of John Paine to the Emmons family, but is unexplained at this point.
    
    
    John junjr, Sarah, Nathaniel, John  (412-415)
    He is possibly a son of John-2, Thomas-1. The "junr" is confusing, as this John is likely older than the John below. Perhaps he was called Junr because his dad was named John and the other John is from Peter. This was not the ordinary way that Junr was assigned in those days, but since he was possibly called Junr when his dad was living, perhaps the label stuck.
    The Nathaniel in this household is likely this one: "Abstracts of Wills Vol III 1730-1744:
    
    "Page 228.--Rip Van Dam, Esq., President, etc. Whereas, NATHANIEL PAINE, of Southold, died intestate, Letters of Administration are granted to his sons-in-law, Richard Terry, Charles Glover, and Henry Brown, December 17, 1731."
    If so, it would appear that Torrey has his marriage to Ann (___) too early (shows first born 1693), as Ann, wife of Nathaniel died, in 1725, age 39 = born 1686 (Salmon Records); plus this Nathaniel is still at home with mom and dad.
    The John listed as a child in this household may be the patriarch of the Wading River Paines, whose will was dated 1762. That John may have been a son of the John-3, Peter-2, Thomas-1, listed below, however - or from the Southampton Paines - or from the Thomas above; as the John Paine of Wading River, or his wife, had ties, and were neighbors with, the Emmons family; with whom that Thomas Paine was living in 1698.
    
    Abigail widdow, Abigail junjr, Mary, Sarah  (682-685)
    This matches Abigail (___), widow of Peter-3 (Peter-2, Thomas-1). Abigail is reported by Torrey to have died 1716, age 68; so these girls likely in their high teens or even twenties. Abigail junjr married John Dains (see Dains above), right after the census. He, as a single man, just follows this family, and was probably living with the family at the time of the census. I have no further record for Mary & Sarah. This Sarah is likely too old to be the Sarah Paine who married John Griffin, Feb 13, 1733, as they are reported to have had Thankful Griffin, born 1752, who married Peter Vail. The identity of the Sarah Paine who married John Griffin continues to elude me.
    
    John, Jemima, Mary, Martha, Jemima, Eliza, John junjr,  (706-712)
    
    This matches John and Jemima (Alsop) Paine and their family. (For Jemima, see Anderson, Sanford, & Sanford; The Great Migration (...continues) 1999, 1634-1635, Joseph Alsop sketch, pp 47-52).
    Ackerly comments in the VR record published in LI Source records that Mary and Martha (apparently the Mary and Martha above) were from a previous marriage of this John. Torrey reports that marriage to be to a Mary (___) (1661-1690). John married Jemima Alsop 03/24/1691/2.
    
    There were four Paine families in the 1686 census:
    
    John senr, 5m - 3f;
    Cornelius, 4m - 3f;
    John Pain junjr, 3m - 2f, 1 fslave;
    Petter, 2m - 3f
              (See LI Source Records, p 153).
            Total: in 1686 = 25; Total in 1698 = 16. Looks like some families are elsewhere.
    Lucy Ackerly in her commentary after VR entries, c 1730, for Alsop Paine in the Southold Vital Records, says Alsop was son of John, Jr, who was son of: Peter-3, Thomas-2, Thomas-1. (See LI Source Records, p 156). I am quite sure she is referring to Thomas-1 as the known English parent of the American immigrant and Thomas-2 in her numbering system is the American immigrant. Thus, we would have Alsop-4, John-3, Peter-2, Thomas-1 in the normal numbering system of using "1" for the immigrant. She says this is "proven" by John Junr's "unpublished" will.
    Where Cornelius and his family moved to I do not know, perhaps to other parts of Long Island, or to the mainland. A Cornelius Paine is reported by Mather (Refugees from LI to Conn) to be the father of Elisha Paine, who married Deliverance Tuthill, 10/03/1748. That Cornelius Paine married Content Havens. He is likely a son of the Cornelius Paine in the 1686 census.
    
    As noted above, either the John shown as a child in this family, or the John shown as a child in the family of "John, junr" above; could be the John Paine, patriarch of the Wading River Paines, whose will of 1762 lists daughters Mary, Elizabeth Robinson and grandsons Benjamin, John, and Moses Paine.