General Notes

ubject:    Re: Ottonian descent from CharlemagneFrom:        ntaylor@fas.harvard.edu (Nathaniel Taylor)Date:        Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:34:04 -0500In article <33646CE8.1659@hotmail.com>, mat_man@hotmail.comwrote:>
I came across this descent when i was looking up> Henry the Fowler's ancestry, in an article by E. Hlawitschka> in Rheinische Vierteljahrblatter, 1974, p128 which I'vealready> quoted. I wonder if
this descent has been accepted by the more> recent genealogical compendiums (eg. Settipani). <snip>>                  Charlemagne>        _____________|_____________________>         |           
                      |>      Pippin IV d.810                   Louis the Pious>         |                                  |>      Aeda-Attala m. Billung            Louis the German>       b.806   
  |                         |>                  |                         |>                 Oda m. Ludolf              |>                d.913|    d.866             |>              
_____|__________            |>               |                |          |>            Otto            Luitgarde m. Louis II d.882>            d.912The Hlawitschka article, "Zur Herkunft der
Liudolfinger und zueinigenCorbeyer Geschichtsquellen," Rheinische Vierteljahrsblatter 98(1974),92-165, is also reprinted in his _Stirps regia: Forschungen zuKnigtumund Fhrungsschichten im frheren
Mittelalter_ (Frankfort amMain, 1988).This Carolingian-Ottonian link does not appear in Settipani's_Prehistoiredes Capetiens_ (nor in Werner's 'Nachkommen Karls des Grossen',publishedbefore
Hlawitschka's article).  Pippin's five daughters are allnoted asdead ends in both works.  The Hlawitschka article is cited bySettipani ina footnote in his entry for Louis III (your 'Louis II'
above),p. 655, n.288; he says Hlawitschka should be consulted for the Liudolfingfamily,with the addition of Brigitte Kasten, _Adalhard von Corbie: dieBiographieeines karolingischen Politikers und
Klostervorstehers_(Dsseldorf,1986), 176-207; and Winfrid Glocker, _Die Verwandten der Ottonenund ihreBedeutung in der Politik: Studien zur Familienpolitik und zurGenealogiedes sachsischen
Kaiserhauses_ (Kln, 1989).  I will look forthese to seeif either explicitly refutes Hlawitschka; otherwise, I don'tknow whySettipani would have ignored it in his notice of the daughtersof Pippinof
Italy (211-12).  It has been assumed by historians that the Ottonians had noCarolingianblood at all in the early generations, so this would constitutea serioushistorical revision.  Has anyone found
a discussion of this inrecenthistories or other genealogical compendia?Nat Taylor
DATE 1 APR 1999