Lodbrock, Ragnar

Birth Name Lodbrock, Ragnar 1a 2a 3a 4a
Also Known As King of Lethra, Ragnar Sigurdsson “Lodbrok” 4b
Gramps ID I3630
Gender male
Age at Death unknown

Events

Event Date Place Description Notes Sources
Birth [E4384] after 775    
2b 5 4c
Death [E4385] BET. 862 - 866 Northumbria, England  
3b 2c 4d

Parents

Relation to main person Name Birth date Death date Relation within this family (if not by birth)
Father King of Denmark & Norway, Sigurd Hring [I3637]before 770about 790
Mother Gandolsdottir, Alfhild [I2965]before 810
         Lodbrock, Ragnar [I3630] after 775 BET. 862 - 866

Families

    Family of Lodbrock, Ragnar and Sigurdsdottir, Aslaug [F2634]
Married Wife Sigurdsdottir, Aslaug [I3631] ( * about 779 + ... )
   
Event Date Place Description Notes Sources
Marriage [E29041]      
1 3c 4e
  Children
Name Birth Date Death Date
Ragnarsson, Sigurd “Snake-in-Eye” [I3629]891
King of Dublin, Ivar “the Boneless” Ragnarsson [I3638]873
King of Uppsala, Bjorn “Ironside” Ragnarsson [I3639]after 891
Ragnarsdottir, Alof [I3640]

Narrative

[SUSANNA KEENE.FTW]

he also reduced Seeland.
Danish fleet of 350 ships lost.

 

 

 

 

See Snorre's Saga and the Icelandic Landnamobok (Book of
Settlment).
"Greatest of all Vikings" (Makers of England, Arthur Bryant, p.
95, Doubleday & Comp., 1962)
"Royalty for Commoners", Roderick W. Stuart, 1992, 2nd edition.
"Pedigrees of the County Families of Yorkshire", Foster, 1874,
2 vols. vol1: West Riding, vol2: North and East Ridings
"Ancestral roots of certain American colonists who came to
America before 1700", Weis, 1992, seventh edition.

Was RAGNAR LOTHBROK historical?

One of the things that makes this a difficult question to
discuss is
that the question "Was Ragnar Lothbrok historical?" is itself
somewhat ambiguous. Thus, before the question can be
discussed, the
question has to first be more clearly defined. To mention two
opposite extremes, a skeptic could ask whether or not
everything which
is said about the character of Ragnar Lothbrok is historically
accurate, observe that the answer is certainly "no", and then
claim
victory. At the other extreme, a proponent of a historical
Ragnar
Lothbrok could ask if a Viking by the name of Ragnar ever
existed,
point out that a Viking having the correct name ("Reginheri")
appears
in the Frankish annals, and claim that Ragnar Lothbrok was
therefore
historical. Neither of these two extremes is acceptable in a
serious
argument on the subject, so I will discuss the subject from the
following middle ground. The criteria which I will use are
that in
order for Ragnar Lothbrok to be considered as historical, there
should
be a historically documented person of that name who actually
performed a significant number of the deeds attributed to the
legendary Ragnar Lothbrok. I think these are reasonable
criteria, and
the remainder of this discussion is based on these principles.
Now,
to answer the question: No, Ragnar Lothbrok does not appear to
be a
historical figure, based on the above criteria. I will give
some
comments as to why I have this opinion, and then mention some
reading
material for those who want more.

RAGNAR

The contemporary historical records of the ninth century (when
Ragnar
Lothbrok supposedly lived) show only one Viking of the correct
name, a
Viking named "Reginheri" (a Latin form equivalent to the name
Ragnar)
in France WHO DIED IN THE YEAR 845, according to the
contemporary
Frankish annals. The emphasized words in the previous sentence
are
often conveninetly overlooked by those who wish to use
Reginheri as a
historical prototype for Ragnar Lothbrok. Since Reginheri died
in
France in the year 845, he cannot have participated in the
later
events which form the principal part of the legendary Ragnar
Lothbrok's exploits. In addition, there is no good evidence
that
Reginheri was the father of any of the individuals who later
came to
be regarded as sons of Ragnar Lothbrok. Thus, Reginheri fails
to
satisfy the criterion mentioned above. No other historical
Norseman
named Ragnar is known for the appropriate time period.

LOTHBROK

No contemporary record gives this name, and it is significant
that
when the name finally does make it appearance in the records
200 years
later, it stands alone. (Ari, writing in the twelfth century,
was the
first known writer to make Ragnar and Lothbrok the same
person.) The
name first appears (as "Lothbroc") in "Gesta Normannorum
Ducum", by
William of Jumieges, writing about 1070, in which Lothbroc is
called
he father of Bjorn Ironside. (A Viking named Bjorn is verified
by the
contemporary chronicles, but without the nickname.) Adam of
Bremen,
writing soon afterward, called Ivar the son of "Lodparchus".
Besides
the fact that this Lothbrok is not attested in any of the
contemporary
sources, there seems to be another problem, and that is that
the name
("Lothbroka") appears to be a women's name. See the article on
Ragnars saga" by Rory McTurk in "Medieval Scandinavia: an
encyclopedia" (New York and London, 1993). If this argument
based on
philology is correct, then this Lothbrok(a), if historical at
all,
would be a women, and clearly not identical with the legendary
Ragnarr
Lothbrok. (I do not have the background in linguistics to
comment
further on this gender argument.)

RAGNALL

The "Fragmentary Annals of Ireland" (edited and translated by
Joan N.
Radner, Dublin, 1978, formerly called "Three Fragments") has an
item
of interest which has frequently been pointed out as possibly
relating
to the legend of Ragnar Lothbrok. In it, a certain Ragnall
(Rognvald)
son of Alpdan (Halfdan), king of Norway, is mentioned, and his
exploits prior to the fall of York to the Danes are given, in a
context in which it is at least arguable that Ragnall and
Ragnar
Lothbrok were the same person. There are two problem with this
interpretation. First, Ragnar and Ragnall are not the same
name, even
though they look similar. Second, and more important, the
Fragmentary
Annals are themselves not a contemporary source, and there is
good
reason to be suspicious about them. However, even if we were
to allow
that the events given there are historical (a concession which
many
historians would be unwilling to make), and then concede
further that
these events form the basis of the Ragnar legend, then we would
still
have that the person on whom the legend was based did not have
the
right name.

Could RAGNALL and LOTHBROK have been the same person?

We have already seen that the only historically attested Ragnar
(Reginheri) cannot reasonably be regarded as a historical
prototype
for Ragnar Lothbrok. Thus, it appears that the best attempt to
argue
for a historical Ragnar Lothbrok is to propose (as has been
done on
numerous occasions) that Ragnall and Lothbrok were both the
same
person, and then assume that the similar (but different) names
Ragnall
and Ragnar were accidently confused. Thus, let us see what
assumptions are needed in order to assume that Ragnall and
Lothbrok
were the same person, assuming that they existed at all. In
order for
this to be the case, we must make the following assumptions:

(1) We must assume that Adam of Bremen (late eleventh century)
was
correct in giving "Lodparchus" (i.e., Lothbrok) as the name of
the
father of Ivar (late ninth century).

(2) We must assume that the "Coghad Gaedhel re Gallaibh" ("The
War of
the Gaedhil with the Gaill", ed. by Todd, London, 1867), a
twelfth
century Irish source, is correct in stating that Halfdan of
Dublin
(killed in Ireland in 877, according to the Annals of Ulster)
was the
son of a certain Ragnall, and that this Ragnall was the same as
the
Ragnall who appears in the Fragmentary Annals of Ireland.

(3) We must assume that the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle is correct
in
stating that a brother (unnamed, but called Ubbe in later
sources) of
Halfdan and Ivar was killed in England in 878, despite the
contradictory testimony of Aethelweard which gives a very
different
reading for the same event (see 4).

(4) We must assume that the chronicle of Aethelweard is wrong
in
stating that Halfdan brother of Ivar was killed in England in
878, for
otherwise that would prove that Halfdan of Dublin (d. 877 in
Ireland)
was a different person from Halfdan brother of Ivar.

(5) In addition to assuming that Halfdan of Dublin was the
same
person as Halfdan brother of Ivar, we must also assume that
this Ivar
was the same person as Adam of Bremen's Ivar, keeping in mind
that
Aethelweard's chronicle, if correct, would imply the existence
of two
Ivars in the British isles at this time.

(6) We must assume that the philological argument making
Lothbrok(a)
a feminine name is incorrect.

(7) If Ari, the earliest author to mention Ragnar Lothbrok, is
to be
considered a reliable source on this matter, then we must also
assume
that Halfdan of Dublin was the same person as the Halfdan
brother of
Sigifrid who appears in the Annals of Fulda for the year 873,
despite
the severe chronological problems which that would cause with
Ari's
genealogies.

Of the above assumptions, numbers (1) through (6) are crucial
if one
wishes to argue that Ragnall and Lothbrok were the same, and
(7) is
needed also if it is to be assumed that the information given
by Ari
is accurate. Given the noncontemporary nature of the first two
items,
along with the contradictions present some of the others, there
is a
very small chance that all six of the crucial assumptions are
correct.
However, if any one of the first six items is false, then the
case for
Ragnall being the same as Lothbrok collapses, and we must
conclude
that the "Ragnall Lothbrok" attempt for a historical Ragnar
Lothbrok
is unsatisfactory. [Note: See R. W. McTurk's article "Ragnarr
Lothbrok in the Irish Annals?" (Proceedings of the Seventh
Viking
Congress, 1976, pp. 93-123), where a different, but much more
rigid,
list of the same type is given.]

CONCLUSIONS

Since all of the above attempts to find a historical Ragnar
Lothbrok
fail to satisfy the mentioned criteria, Lothbrok and Ragnall
come from
noncontemporary sources which are themselves open to suspicion,
and
the historical records show nobody else (as far as I know) who
could
be plausibly identified with Ragnar Lothbrok, it must be
concluded
that Ragnar Lothbrok is not historical according to the terms
described above. In fact, if there is any historical basis to
Ragnar
Lothbrok legend, it is quite likely that Ragnar Lothbrok is the
result
of combining two or more distinct individuals into a single
character
having the attributes of both, in much the same way as Ragnar
Lothbrok's legendary "father" Sigurd Ring is in fact a
composite of
two different men who fought against each other for the Danish
throne
in the year 814, Sigifridus ("Sigurd") and Anulo (of which
"Ring" is a
translation of Latin "Annulus"). However, such composite
characters
cannot be considered as historical, and there is no evidence
which
comes close to being contemporary which shows that either
Lothbrok or
Ragnall existed.

FURTHER READING

The most ambitious attempt to portray Ragnar Lothbrok as a
historical
figure is "Scandinavian Kings in the British Isles 850-880" by
Alfred
P. Smyth (Oxford University Press, 1977). For a very critical
examination of Smyth's views, see "High-kings, Vikings and
other
kings", by Donnchadh O' Corrain, in Irish Historical Review,
vol 21
(1979), pp. 283-323 (very highly recommended). Both of these
sources
cite numerous other relevant sources for those who are
interested in
further details.

[Note: The usual apologies if my transliterations from the Old
Norse
alphabet into the alphabet available to me is a bit sloppy.]

Stewart Baldwin

Narrative

Records not imported into INDI (individual) Gramps ID I3630:

Line ignored as not understood Line 84481: 2 SOUR @S085410@
Skipped subordinate line Line 84482: 3 DATA
Skipped subordinate line Line 84483: 4 TEXT Date of Import: Aug 7, 2000

 

Attributes

Type Value Notes Sources
REFN 4115
 

Pedigree

  1. King of Denmark & Norway, Sigurd Hring [I3637]
    1. Gandolsdottir, Alfhild [I2965]
      1. Lodbrock, Ragnar
        1. Sigurdsdottir, Aslaug [I3631]
          1. Ragnarsson, Sigurd “Snake-in-Eye” [I3629]
          2. King of Dublin, Ivar “the Boneless” Ragnarsson [I3638]
          3. King of Uppsala, Bjorn “Ironside” Ragnarsson [I3639]
          4. Ragnarsdottir, Alof [I3640]

Ancestors

Source References

  1. Brian Tompsett, Dept of Computer Science: University of Hull Royal Database (England), Author Address: [S13227]
      • Page: See Snorre's Saga and the Icelandic Landnamobok (Book of Settlment). Many historians regard much of the genealogy at this point to be purely legendary, or even mythical. Son of Sigurd Ring, no mother.
  2. G.P. Baker: Fighting Kings of Wessex [S11331]
      • Page: Evidence for his existence is fragmentary, but the author holds he was a real historical person, & the son of Sigfrith Hring.
      • Page: "too young" to assume kingship when his father died abt 810
      • Page: d between 862 & 866
  3. Ernst-Friedrich Kraentzler: Ancestry of Richard Plantagenet & Cecily de Neville [S10416]
      • Page: chart 1792, Rayner Lodbrok, K of Denmark & Sweden, s of Sigurd Ring, no mother
      • Page: chart 1792, d abt 794
      • Page: chart 1792
  4. SUSANNA KEENE.FTW [S85410]
      • Source text:

        Date of Import: Aug 7, 2000

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        Date of Import: Aug 7, 2000

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        Date of Import: Aug 7, 2000

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        Date of Import: Aug 7, 2000

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  5. other sources show birth around 750 [S12361]