Sir Alexander Seaton

• General Notes
  • 'Seton01'Index links to: Lead / Letter
    Families covered: Seton of Seton [NB. Much of the information reported here is subject to serious doubt. It appears that, though many have tried, so far no-one has been able to determine a truly-reliable pedigree for these early generations.]
                                                        
    The early generations of this family are difficult to ascertain with any certainty. It appears that, probably a long time ago, a Seton pedigree was produced that has since been reported by various sources (including BLG1850 and some modern web sites). Various parts of that pedigree have been rejected by some modern genealogists (including TSP and BP1934) for it mixed-up different branches of the family and sometimes showed brothers & cousins as fathers & sons. The following attempts to make sense of the matter, relying heavily on TSP (Winton) and BP1934 (Eglinton) neither of which show the opening connection which appears to have come from the old pedigree (although it is not reported by BLG1850 but comes from the setonfamily web site identified below).
    Saier de Lens de Seton
    The setonfamily site reports that Saier de Lens was father of Walter de Lens also known as Walter the Fleming also known as ...
    Dougall de Seton (a temp Alexander I who d 1124)
    m. Janet de Quincy (?? dau of Quincy, Earl of Winchester)
    1.     Secher (or Saier) de Seton
        
    Secher, son of Dougall de Seton and Janet daughter of Quincy Earl of Winchester, is reported by BLG1850 (Seton of Carish). It must be questioned not least because the first Quincy to be made Earl of Winchester, Saier, died in 1219 which makes the dates look very unlikely. The 'setonfamily' web site referred to below identifies her just as a Quincy heiress without any suggestion that her father was Earl of Winchester. TSP and BP1934 both start with ...
          A.     Alexander de Seaton (a 1150) probably father of ...
          i.     Philip de Setun (a 1177)
          m. Alice (dau of Waldeve, 4th Earl of Dunbar)
          
    TSP acknowledges that Philip is reported to have married Alice (or Helen), daughter of Waldeve, 4th Earl of Dunbar, but suggests it more probable that he was married to Matilda Corbet. BLG1850 (Seton of Carish) identifies her as a daughter of the Earl of March. The Earldoms of March and Dunbar were carried alongside each other for many years.
          a.     Alexander de Seton (a 1195, d c1247)
          m. Margaret de Berkeley (dau of Sir Walter de Berkeley)
        
    The descent from this Alexander to the Sir Alexander de Seton (who married Christian Cheyne) is obscure. The following provides a possible descent but is not reliable. It follows BLG1850 (Seton of Carish) combined with data suggested by TSP. TSP suggests Seyer de Seton's father was called Dugal.
          (1)     Bertram (Bartine) de Seton
          (2)     Sir Seyer (Serlo) de Seton (a 1264)
          m. Margaret Cumyn (dau of William Cummin, Justiciar)
          (A)     Alexander de Seton
          Alexander's wife may have been Janet (or Margaret) Gifford, daugher of Hugh of Yester.
          (i)     Sir Alexander de Seton (d c1350)§D
          m. Christian Cheyne (dau of Francis le Chen of Straloch)
          (a)     Thomas de Seton (dsp 1333)
          (b)     William de Seton (dsp 1333)
        (c)     Sir Alexander de Seton (dsp 1332)
          m. (??) Margaret Murray (possibly sister of Sir William Murray, Captain of Edinburgh Castle)
          (d)     Sir John de Seton (dvp after 1327)
          
    
    There is significant confusion between different members of this family. The setonfamily site appears now (01.2007) to show this John as the 1st of Parbroath but we are not clear how the following Margaret, who appears to have been the heiress of the main line of Seton, would have been related to that John who is known to have had children. We continue to show that John below.
          ((1))     Sir Alexander (or John) de Seton (dsp c1346)
          m. (1346) Margaret de Ruthven (dau of William de Ruthven of that ilk)
          ((2))     Margaret de Seton     
    ..
          m. (c1347) Alan de Wyntoun     
    ..
          Their children took the name Seton and were ancestors of many families of that name.
        
    The following has been inserted to try to capture some of the information provided by 'the old pedigree' which was not given by either TSP or BP1934 and so would otherwise be omitted altogether. The precise connection is not certain but it is at least partly consistent with the report made in TSP when specifically rejecting the idea that the Alexander who married Christian Cheyne was grandson of the Sir Christopher who married Christian, sister of King Robert the Bruce. TSP reports that "conclusive proof, not known to the above-mentioned genealogists, is now available, which proves that Sir Christopher was son of Sir John de Seton, who held the manor of Seton in Whitby Strand, co. York"
          (3)     Sir Christopher de Seton (d 1269)
          m. Maud de Percy (dau of Lord Topcliff)
          (A)     Sir Christopher de Seton (d Dillicarew 12.06.1298)
          (B)     Sir John de Seton (in Yorkshire)
        (i)     
    
    Sir Christopher de Seton, Governor of Berwick (d by 1307)
          m. Christian Bruce (d 1357, dau of Sir Robert de Bruce, 6th of Annandale)
          The 'alternative' pedigree reports that they were parents of Sir Alexander Seton whose daughter (rather than sister) was Margaret, heiress of Seton, who married Alan de Wyntoun. The setonfamily web site used to report that Sir Christopher's youngest son was John, 1st of Parbroath, but appears to have changed its mind. Because we are not convinced about the relationship now shown for the John now shown by that site as the 1st of Parbroath and the Margaret who was the heiress of the main Seton line (above), and because 'Fife P&H' reports that John "is said to have been .. fourth son of Sir Alexander Seton, governor of Berwick, who defended that place against Edward III in 1333" (that date not being consistent with the date we have for his death), we provisionally continue to show Sir Christopher & Christian Bruce as parents of ...
          (a)     Sir John de Seton, 1st of Parbroath (d 1327, 4th son)
          m. Elizabeth Ramsay, heiress of Pabroath
          
    The following connection is suggested by 'Mathematical'.
          (4)     Adam de Seton (d 1249)
          m. Jane Gifford (dau of Hugh Gifford of Yester)
          (A)     Barbara de Seton     
    --
          m. Sir William de Keith (d before 1293)     
    --
          b.     Thomas de Seton
          c.     Emma de Seton
          m. Adam de Pollisworth
    
    Main sources:
    (1) TSP (Winton), BP1934 (Eglinton).
    (2) BLG1850 (Seton of Carish). This not only contains specific information about the very early generations that is disputed or considered uncertain by TSP & BP1934 but also contains information about the generations around the early Lords that contradicts those other sources, which are thought to be more reliable.
    (3) www2thesetonfamily.com (formerly www.setonfamily.com)
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