General Notes

Geoffrey; born probably by 1135; involved in financial transactions and law suits against his cousins and nephew by marriage Geoffrey Fitz Piers to gain the lands of the Mandeville Earls of Essex; married 1st Alice, daughter of Hugh Maminot and widow of Ralph de Cahaines; married 2nd Alice or Adeliza (born after 1163; died in or after 1214), daughter of 1st Earl of Oxford by his 3rd wife Agnes, and died between 1212 and 1214, having by his 1st wife had [Geoffrey], with and eldest son (William, died by 1 Jan 1198/9?) and a youngest (Ingram, in Ireland with brother Geoffrey).  [Burke's Peerage]

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GEOFFREY DE SAY I, brother and heir male, being 2nd son of William DE SAY I and Beatrice, was born probably not later than 1135, and possibly earlier. He appears as witness to a charter of Earl William de Mandeville, brother of Earl Geoffrey, before 1166, and a charter of Henry II, executed at Winchester (1176-81), granting to Earl William de Mandeville all the land (in Normandy] which Robert de Say had rightfully given him. In 1184/5 he accounted in respect of disseisins in Kent; and acted as intermediary for Ralph Brito in connection with his account for the issues of the lands of Henry de Essex and of the Honor of Boulogne. On the King's last return to England in 1188, he was one of the messengers sent forthwith to Canterbury, to demand the instant restoration of services at Christ Church, Canterbury.

In 1191 he offered 7000 marks, after an offer of 3000 marks by Geoffrey FitzPiers in the previous year, for the land of Earl William de Mandeville (died 1189). The heir was Geoffrey's mother, Beatrice, but being "feeble and full of days " she stood aside in the interest of her son. Geoffrey obtained a grant of the lands and in 1190 put an aid upon them; but he was unable to pay the promised sum, and the lands, and eventually the Earldom, came to Geoffrey FitzPiers as husband of Beatrice, elder daughter of William, Geoffrey de Say's elder brother. Geoffrey de Say, however, did not abandon his claim, and in 1212 appointed his son Geoffrey, to whom he transferred his rights, to act as his attorney in the pending suit against Geoffrey FitzPiers for the lands of Earl William. Geoffrey I and Geoffrey FitzPiers were dead by 1214, in which year the claim was heard, after Geoffrey II had offered 15,000 marks to have such seisin of Earl William's lands as his father had on the day on which King Richard disseised him. Geoffrey de Mandeville defended the proceedings in place of his father. The claim failed, but continued to smoulder until 1283-84, when the matter was settled by fine.

In 1193, at the King's command, he accompanied the Chancellor to Germany, where he appears as a witness to several charters given by the King, with whom he was also in April and May 1194 at Winchester, Bishop's Waltham and Portsmouth. He was with the King in the army of Normandy in 1194, and witnessed charters of the King at Rouen in 1196 or 1197.  He was at Lambeth in 1201 and at Lisieux in October 1202. In July 1203 he obtained quittance of debts to the Jews of London, with a further quittance so long as he was in the King's service with arms and horses. In 1204 he had an allowance of one mark for certain expenses in connection with Dover Castle, and on 8 August a mandate issued that he should have 100 marks of silver for the work of the Castle. On 23 January 1205 the King ordered the Constable of Taunton to send a master miner with 40 men to Dover to Geoffrey de Say. In 1191 he paid part of the scutage charged against the heirs of Walkelin Maminot, and in 1194 he was brought in as debtor for the scutage of the heirs "quorum heres est." From 1194. onwards he was regularly amerced for scutage on the Maminot lands.

He married, 1stly, Alice, widow of Ralph DE CAHAINES, and daughter of Hugh MAMINOT (n). He married, 2ndly, Alice, daughter of Aubrey (DE VERE) 1st EARL OF OXFORD, almost certainly by his 3rd wife Agnes, daughter of Henry DE ESSEX. He was alive in 1212, but dead in 1214. Alice survived him and was living in 1214 and died possibly as late as 1217.  [Complete Peerage XI:465-8, XIV:570, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]

(n) Confirmation of grant in 1168 by Walkelin Maminot to Bermondsey Abbey of the advowson of the church of Birling and of a similar grant by Geoffrey de Say, by "Galfridus de Say filius Galfridi de Say et Alicie de Cheinnei uxoris sue"; followed by confirmation by William de Say, son of Geoffrey, son of Geoffrey.  Grant by Geoffrey de Say son of Alice de Chetnay of land in Edmonton, temp. Richard I.  After about 1200 the Say barony consisted almost wholly of fees formerly held by Alice's nephew, Walkelin Maminot.