General Notes

Following is a post to SGM, 12 Jun 2003, by Rosie Bevan, in response to a post by myself on 13 Jun 2003 (the date must be a New Zealand phenomena, but they should be 1 day ahead, so it should read 14 Jun 2003?):

From: "Rosie Bevan" (rbevan@@paradise.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Alice, wife of John de Beaumont, of Drayton
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2003-06-12 23:01:07 PST

Dear Jim

Many thanks for posting this find. Going over the details I have arrived at a slightly different interpretation.

It does indeed look like Alice, formerly wife of John de Dagworth, was the widow of John de Beaumont of the Copinger pedigree. That Alice was not mother of Richard de Beaumont, his son, however, is evident from her IPM of 1315 [CIPM V no. 507], which records that her daughters and next heirs were Alice, wife of John de Dagworth, aged 30 and Iseult, wife of John de Belhous, aged 24 and more.

Richard de Beaumont was known to be alive in 1306 when he made a fine with Giles de Brewse and Joan over Brompton manor, Suffolk. An Alice de Beaumont was holding the same manor in 1326, which leads one to believe she was probably Richard's widow, as John's widow was dead by this time [Copinger, v.3 p.122]. The question is, which Alice was holding Witnesham as per the inquisition of Giles de Brewse in 1311? It is not mentioned in the IPM of Alice, John's widow, in 1315, which leads me to believe that the Alice holding Witnesham was more likely to be Richard's widow.

Although the evidence is circumstantial, on the assumption that Joan and the Drayton Beaumonts are of the same family, this is a provisional pedigree.

1. John de Beaumont d.1298
+(1)NN
2. Richard de Beaumont fl 1306
+ Alice fl 1323
3. Joan de Beaumont d. aft 1326
+ Giles de Brewse d.1311
+(2) Alice, widow of William fitz Warin d.1315

Cheers

Rosie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Weber" <jimweber@@nwintl.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:32 PM
Subject: Alice, wife of John de Beaumont, of Drayton


> To Rosie Bevan, et al.
>
> Rosie Bevan reposted, 21 Mar 2003, a post from 2002, which contained
> a possible ancestry for Richard de Beaumont of Witnesham, father of
> Joan who married Giles de Brewes.  An excerpt of that post is
> contained below.
>
> While browsing through the Sir Thomas Dagworth article in The Complete
> Peerage, I found a note which may pertain to the Rosie's pedigree.  CP
> IV:27 and note (g) state:
>
> "Sir Thomas de Dagworth, yr. s. of John de Dagworth of Dagworth,
> Suffolk, and Bradwell Essex, Usher of the Exchequer (b. 25 Apr 1276),
> d. 27 July 1332), by Alice (m. after 4 July 1292, d. 15 May 1333),
> elder da. and coh. of William fitz Warin (g). . . .
>
> (g) This William d. before 13 Jun 1290.  His widow, Alice, m. John de
> Beaumont, of Drayton and Scarning, Norfolk, Grimston, Suffolk, &c.,
> who d. shortly before 24 Sep 1298.  She m. 3rdly (lic. 21 Aug 1301),
> John Spring.  She d. 5 Mar 1314/5, when Alice, aged 30, wife of John
> de Daggeworth kt., was found to be her elder da. and coh.  (Patent
> Rolls, 18 Edw I, m. 24; 20 Edw I, m. 8; 27 Edw I, m. 38 d; 29 Edw I,
> m. 9; Fine Roll, 26 Edw I, m. 4; Ch. Inq.p.m., Edw I, file 65, no 16;
> Edw II, file 36, no 3; Pipe Roll, 10 Edw II)."
>
> This may be the Alice who was holding Witnesham in dowry prior to
> inheritance by Joan and her son Richard, which would tend to support
> the connection of John Beaumont with Joan, wife of Giles de Brewes.
> She had previously been speculated to have been Richard's wife.  The
> fact that John is "of Drayton" tends to connect him to Rosie's
> Bellomonte/Beaumont family of Suffolk.  John's death date would match
> closely with the 1297, but it would appear that Alice was a late wife
> (after 1290), and not mother of any of his children.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Jim Weber

Note: See notes under Richard Beamont of Witnesham for Rosie's original post.