• General Notes

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  The Lide (Lyde) Story
  By Ruth Nell Burk Lyde
       When I started writing my memories and history of our families in 1983, I wrote the Lyde portion according to the information I had at that time. However, I found a letter among the pictures and keepsakes that Blake's mother had saved. It was written by Geraldine Nutt (a cousin of Blake) to his aunt Myrtle. Geraldine lived in Birmingham, Alabama and her address was on the envelope. With Blake's approval, I wrote to her explaining how I had obtained her address, and asked if she had any information on the Lyde family history, and would be willing to share it.
       In January of 1984 I received a reply from Dorothy Nutt Quinn, the daughter of Geraldine. Geraldine was still living at the time, but was blind. They were surprised and thrilled to hear from "the folks". They had feared they would never hear from any of them again after Aunt Myrtle passed away.
       I should explain here that Geraldine was the daughter of Pa's eldest sister, Daisy. 
       When Pa's father, John J. Lide, Jr. moved to Texas, he and his wife, Julia Watts Lide, left Daisy with two sisters of John J. Lide. Dot is the daughter of Geraldine, and granddaughter of Daisy. The following is the letter received January 26, 1984.
  
  Dear Ruth and Blake,
       What a nice surprise hearing from you. Your letter came to the correct address.
  Mother and Aunt Myrtle corresponded often, after my grandmother died in 1948. Also, Grandmother's eyes were so bad that Mother did the writing for her the last years of her life. Mother cannot understand how her letter to Aunt Myrtle got among Uncle Ernest mementos. It was probably the last letter that Mother wrote because her husband Ira wrote Mother back that Aunt Myrtle was sinking fast - then we heard no more, so we assumed she had passed away. He was a Nazarene minister and moved quite a bit.
       I am sure that Blake will not remember, but in 1933, I came with Grandmother to the family reunion. I was about 12 years old. It was Grandmother's second visit out there since being left in Birmingham as a child. Her first visit was when Mother and Aunt Sadie went with her. (1903) Mother was five years old and Aunt Sadie was eight. Aunt Willie went with them. Mother often talks of it. They went to Foss, Oklahoma by train where Grandpa  met them - and they went by horse and wagon to the old home-place in Dill.
  Mother was 86 years old December 29th, and her mind is truly more accurate than mine. I was so thankful your letter came when it did, because we had often talked about the "folks" out there and knew we would never hear again.
       Now about my visit to Oklahoma and Texas. Grandmother and I came to the reunion. Uncle Zoe met us at Dill, Oklahoma. We were at the old home-place where his family lived and little Great-grandmother Lyde lived across the field up on a little hill in her little house. I can remember running along the path, dodging the horned toads, up to her house-scared to death of those ugly things. I can see her so well in her high top shoes and long dresses. And it was so hot-July or August. I am the only great-grandchild that
  ever knew her.
       After being at Uncle Zoe's a day or so, Uncle Ernest came for us and we went to his home in Plainview. (As you can see, there were some "facts" that had to be corrected for Dot. Blake's family lived at that time in the Arlie community in Childress County, Texas. The next son she mentioned was Noble. R.L.) That is where I barely remember Blake. I believe he was the oldest - then the son next to him drove us to the village one day to the store (just the youngsters) and I saw my first real Indian. I cannot for the life of me remember his name, but have come so close. Aileen was the daughter. She and her
  friend (who lived across the road) and I went horseback riding one day on Uncle Ernest ranch and took our lunch. Up and down ravines we went and visited someone way off it seemed. The three of us girls alone. We stopped at a little stream to water our horses. Mine nudged me and over I went. He proceeded to step on my stomach - and I stayed in bed for a couple of days while Grandmother went to Uncle Don's to visit. Grandmother never knew the horse stepped on me 'cause we girls were "sworn to secrecy". They were
  all so wonderful to us. My Aunt Virginia and Mother worked for several years on this Lide history to get into the U.D.C. and D.A.R.. I have the family Bible (Worrall). So happy to share it with ya'll.
       I have a snapshot of Great-Grandmother Lyde and the ten children made at the reunion. If you do not have one, let me know and I'll have a print made of it for you. Jim (my husband) and I have no children, but I want to keep the picture a little while longer for my two nieces. I'm not ready to turn it over yet.
       I'm sorry that I cannot help you with the year they homesteaded, but it may help you to know the year that Grandmother was born in Mt. Miggs, Alabama June 16, 1873. She died March 31, 1948. You may be able to get the information from Oklahoma archives. Mother and Aunt Virginia got a lot from Alabama archives.
       Please let me know if you receive this and something about the families. Mother is so anxious to know also. Time is passing on and I'm happy you did not "wait too Late".
  Thanks again.
  
                 Love, Dot
  
       This began a correspondence between Dot and me which continued for about five years and yielded a great deal of information about the family history.
       In the meanwhile, I received more information from another source.
  
       A friend of mine, Millie Martin, had a cousin who had married Theo Lide. She had researched the Lide Family. Blake's dad had met Sam Lide, brother of Theo and they had concluded that a distant relationship existed between them. In fact, Pa had said he was pretty sure the spelling of the name had been changed from Lide to Lyde. He had told me that he thought his sister, Daisy, had changed the spelling of the name. In my correspondence with Dot I had been assured that Daisy had always spelled her name "Lide". Dot still has the newspaper account of her grandmother's wedding. Her name was given as Daisy Estelle Lide. Also, all of the relatives in Alabama still spell the name Lide. Dot explained that when the Lide family refused to accept Julia Watts as "good enough" for John Jay Lide, Jr., he left Alabama and moved to Texas where HE changed the spelling of his name. Pa had died before we learned the history.
       Velma Lide, Millie's cousin came to Petersburg to compare the information she had received with that which I had obtained through correspondence with Dot. Dot's record had traced the family back to 1734, but Velma's traced it back to 434 AD.
       I will attempt a summary of the information from both sources without any effort to prove the validity of the information. Although there are some discrepancies, I feel that much of it can be accepted as reliable.
       The very early records that follow were supplied by a Miss Jane Lide of South Carolina, and were given to me by Velma Lide of FM 179, Lubbock, Texas 79416.
  
  VERY EARLY RECORDS OF THE FAMILY
  
       No. of Generations
       1.  Hengist,   1st King of the Saxons in England, 434 AD
       2.  Hartwaker, 2nd  King of the Saxons
       3.  Hatwigate, 3rd "     " "  "
       4.  Huldaric,  4th "     " "  "
       5.  Badicus,   5th "     " "  "
       6.  Berthold,  6th "     " "  "
       7.  Sighard,   7th "     " "  "
       8.  Dieteric,  8th "     " "  "
       9.  Warniche,  9th "     " "  "
       10.  Wittenkind,  Last King of the Saxons in England
       11.  Wittenkind II, Count of Wettin
       12.  Wittenkind III, Count of Wettin
       13.  Robert Fortis, Duke of France
       14.  Robert II, Duke of France
       15.  Hugh the Great, Duke of France
       16.  Hugh Capet, King of France, md. Adela, dau. of Wm. Duke of  Aquitaine, and his wife Adelheid, dau. of Otto I, Emperor of Germany, and Adelheid of Italy. This Otto I claimed descent from the Caesars of Rome.
       17.  Robert the Pious, King of France, md. Lady Constance of Provence in France.
       18.  Princess Adela of France, md. Baldwin V, 7th Count of Flanders.
       19.  Lady Matilda of Flanders md. Wm. the Conqueror (1021-1087) Duke of Normandy by conquest in 1066 King of England. The eldest son of this
  marriage was William II, who left no heir, and was followed as king by his
  brother.
       20. Henry 1, King of England md. Princess Matilda of Scotland. Their son Stephen became King of England but left no heir. Stephen's sister, the
       21. Princess Maud, had md. (1st) the Emperor of Germany (Henry V) and after      his death md. (2nd) Geoffrey Plantagenet, Count of Anjou in France.
  Their son and nephew of King Stephen, became
       22. Henry II, King of England. He md. Lady Eleanor of Aquitaine in France. The next king of England was the son of this pair. Richard Lion-Hearted, the great Crusader, died in the Near East while his parents, the King and    Queen of England, were struggling against the Moslem empire for  
  possession of the Holy Land. Thus, after Richard's death, his younger brother, John, ascended the throne of England as
       23. John, King of England (b. 1166 - d. 1216)
  
  RHYS LINE
  (Simplified Form)
       1.  Name:
       Welsh. Anglicized to Rees, Prees, Price
       2. LINEAGE (Note: ap means "son of")
       We (21) are of the line of Rhys through our paternal great, great, great, great, great grandmother, Hannah Rhys (Price) (18) who married Rees Jones.
  
       1.  John, King of England,1166-1216,md. Isabella
       2.  Henry III, 1206-1272, md. Eleanor.
       3.  Their son, Edward I, 1239-1307, md. Eleanor.
       4.  Their daughter, Eleanor, married Henri, Count de Barr, France. (At this point a lineage through a son of Edward I (who never became king) leads to Thomas Lloyd, deputy governor of Penn, and names this Thomas as the father of Robert LLoyd  of Merion, Penn. The lineage through Princess Eleanor does not lead to Robert Lloyd, but to his wife Lowry Jones Lloyd.
       5.  Eleanor de Barr Llewellyn, descended from Prince of S. Wales.
       6.  Thomas ap Llewellyn md. Eleanor
       7.  Eleanor md. Gruggydd Vychan IV.
       8.  Owen Glendower Todor, born 1345, ap Eleanor, md. Maud
       9.  Lowry md. Gruffydd in Merionetshire
       10.  Ellissau ap Gruffydd md. Margaret
       11.  Lowry md. Reinallt
       12.  Mary md. Robert ap David Lloyd
       13.  Thomas Lloyd md. Catherine, fifth from Robert ap Griffith
       14.  Mary md. Richard
       15.  Rhys ap Richard
       16.  Griffith ap Rhys
       17.  Richard ap Griffith ap Rhys died 1685.
  (Rhys changed to Prees, Price)
       18.  Hannah Price, 1656-1741, md. Reece Jones, d. 1739
       19.  Lowry Jones, 1680-1762, md. Robert Lloyd, 1669-1714
       20.  David Lloyd, 1707-1773, md. Anna Crawford, 1710, d. before 1740
       21.  Major Robert Lide (Lloyd) 1734-1802, md. Mary Westfield, 1755-1809. This is the Robert Lide through whom our Lyde family descended. He was the youngest of the three Lide brothers, John, Thomas and Robert, who came to Cheraw, S.C. He married three times. When he was 21, he married a young widow, Mrs. Prissalie Fort, mother of a son by her first marriage. The wedding took place Sept. 12, 1755. At the reception a sniping Tory hiding outside, aimed a bullet at the groom, missed, and fatally wounded the bride. Nearly five years later, he married Sarah Kolb, daughter of   Johannas Kolb of Mannheim, in west Germany, later of Germantown, Pennsylvania (where Sarah was born Sept. 26, 1736), and then of Kolb's Neck on the Pee Dee River near Cashua Ferry.
       Robert was reared an Episcopalian, but after his marriage to Baptist Sarah, he became a Baptist and joined the Cashaway Baptist Church. He remained a loyal and active member of the Mechanicsville Baptist Church.
       Major Robert Lide and Sarah Kolb were married May 15, 1760. She died in South Carolina Sept. 24, 1789 at 53 years of age. During their years of marriage, they had seven children, 5 sons and 2 daughters. * This does NOT match the information provided by Dot Quinn. According to her letter, there were three sons. The ancestor of this family is listed as John, the eldest son. The following list of children of Robert and Sarah from the material from Velma Lide shows the eldest son John to have probably died in infancy.(R.L.)
  
       1.  John Lide b. April 9, 1761. Probably died in infancy. No further record.
       2.  Mary Lide b. Feb. 12, 1763 d. Feb. 19, 1816. md. Oct. 21, 1779 Robert Hodges.
       3.  Ann Lide b. June 10, 1765 d. Oct. 21, 1814, md. March 28, 1782, Samuel Wilds.
       4.  Robert Lide b. May 19, 1768, d. Oct.5, 1773, age 5
       5.  James Lide b. May 19, 1770, d. Nov. 9, 1885 in Carlowville, Alabama. (The account of this family's move to Alabama is told in the book The Lides Go   South and West. He married his step-sister Jane Holloway Aug. 23, 1793.)
       6. Hugh Lide b. May 20, 1773, d. May 20, 1843
       7. Peter Lide b. July 10, 1776, d. Sept. 13, 1796. Unmarried.
  
       During the years of Robert's second marriage, the War of the American Revolution occurred. When the British Army came south, Francis Marion called all of the officers and militiamen of the Pee Dee area to volunteer for service in a brigade under his command. Capt. Robert Lide went into the brigade as a Major. His brother was put in command of a regiment as a Colonel. Marion's Brigade rushed to the defense of Charleston after the fall
  of Savannah. Before all the companies of militia reached Charleston, Major Lide's command among them, that city fell to the British in May 1780. When Major Robert Lide's wife Sarah, heard the bad news, she fainted and never fully recovered from the shock. Their youngest child, Peter, was not quite four years old when his mother collapsed in the garden, and became an invalid. At the time this happened, his oldest brother James was ten and Hugh was seven. Major Robert Lide married a third time. On June 23, 1790, he married the widow Mary Westfield Holloway. She was twenty years his junior, having been born the year of his first marriage to Prissalie Fort. His son James was twenty, Peter was 14, and their step-mother was 35. She brought with her to Major Lide's home her four Holloway children - one son and three daughters, the youngest an infant. These, with the Major's three sons, made a household of seven young people. The two Lide daughters had married. Three years after the coming of the young Holloways, on Aug.22, 1793, the Major's son James married his step-sister Jane Holloway, age 15.
       One source says no children were born to Robert and Mary. Another says three children were born to Major Robert Lide and his third wife Mary Westfield Holloway:
       1. Sarah Ann Lide b. Dec. 20, 1791, d. in infancy
       2. John Westfield Lide b. Feb. 19, 1794, d. Feb. 19, 1858. Never
  married. He was a member of S.C. State Legislature 1822-1826. He built a beautiful house in Springville and occupied it with his widowed sister Hannah.
       3. Hannah Lide b. Nov.. l9, 1796 d. Oct. 7, 1875, m. Aug. 8 1815 Capt. Thomas Edward Hart, for whom Hartsville, S.C. is named.
       Robert Lide owned much property. One record shows that he sold 2000 acres of land to his son-in-law Robert Hodges with his sons James and Hugh signing as witnesses to the transaction Feb. 13, 1795. Another record shows that he owned 32 slaves.
       Robert Lide, born May 17, 1734, in Roanoke, Va., died March 12, 1802 and was buried in Lowther's Hill Cemetery.
       The following information is from first letter received from Dott Quinn.
  Book of History of the Old Cheraws, S.C. about 1740 - family of Lide.
       Three brothers John, Thomas and Robert - Welsh origin came to Cheraw, S.C. from Roanoke, Va..
       Of the three brothers who came to Pedee, S.C., John the oldest left an only son, William. William is the father of John Wild Lide and the late Mrs. Rebecca Lide. * (John Wild Lide is also listed as a grandson of  Robert Lide.)
       Thomas, the second son, settled on the river at Cheraw Hill. He was educated in the Church of England and took an active part in the organization of St. David's Parish, and was a large contributor to the building of the church and parish. (Other sources say he received a grant from King George III to build the church which still stands at the present time-4/11/94. R.L.) Thomas married three times. His first wife, a Miss Kimbrough, had one child, a daughter who was the mother of John Lide Wilson. His second wife, a Miss Foster, had one daughter and five sons, John Thomas, Charles Mott, Robert, and James. His third wife's name is not known.
       Robert Lide, the youngest son was born in Roanoke, Va. 1734 and was brought to Pedee, (sic) South Carolina by his maternal Uncle Crawford. He married Miss Sarah Kolb and had three sons. He was a Major in General Marion's Brigade in 1782. John, his oldest son, had one son, John Wild Lide.
       John Wild Lide had a son John Jay Lide, Senior.  (Great-grandfather of Blake).
       John Jay Lide, Senior and family settled in Montgomery, Alabama. He had one son, John Jay Lide, Jr., two daughters, Miss Rebecca Lide and Miss Willie Lide.
       They were a family of wealth - but lost everything during the Civil War, except the family silver.
       John Jay Lide, Jr. was born in Montgomery, Alabama and served in the Home Guard during the Civil War. He married Julia Watts,(b. April 8, 1885, d. March 23, 1942) of Montgomery, Ala.. After a family disagreement, John Jay Lide, Jr. and his wife moved to Mt. Miggs, Alabama where he owned a plantation. They had ten children:
       1. Daisy Estelle, June 16, 1873-March 31, 1948;
       2. Walter Robert, April 23, 1874-Sept. 17, 1956;
       3. Julia Florence, Sept. 25, 1876-June 29, 1984, YES age 107 !;
       4. Ethel, Aug. 20, 1879-July 11, 1881;
       5. Charles Mayhew, Oct. 29, 1882-Oct. 24, 1955;
       6. Leila Mary, July 18, 1885-Mar. 28, 1971;
       7. Ernest Melton, Aug. 25, 1888-Mar. 3, 1970;
       8. Albert Elmore, b. & d. Oct. 19, 1889;
       9. John Erby, Oct. 19, 1891-Sept. 24, 1975;
       10. Zora Wilmer, June 11, 1894-Mar. 5, 1978;
       11. Evelyn Bell, April 11, 1896 - ;
       12. Myrtle Edna, July 19, 1898 - Dec. 26, 1967.
  
       John Jay Lide, on his way to homestead at Dill, Oklahoma, left his daughter, Daisy Estelle with her two aunts Willie and Rebecca Lide because of a  medical problem (eyes). She attended Lula Compton's Girl's School and Stephen Pollock Seminary. She was gifted in music. She married Frederick William Worrall of Nashville, Tennessee September 23, 1891 in Birmingham, Alabama. They had seven children.
       1. Frederick William - died at age one
       2. Sara Grace b. Feb. 10. 1895
       3. Geraldine, b. Dec. 29, 1897
       4. Henry Lewis, b. March 4, 1903
       5. Richard Francis, b. March 16, 1906
       6. Emma Virginia and Philemon Edward (twins), b. January 3, 1909
  
       The family lineage of all of the rest of the children born to John Jay Lide (Lyde) Jr. and Julia Watts Lyde is contained in full in other papers to be stored with this account, and will not be included in this paper.
       Blake's dad said he felt sure that the family name had previously been spelled "Lide", and thought that his sister Daisy had changed the spelling. In later correspondence with Dot Quinn, Daisy's granddaughter, I learned that John Jay himself had changed the spelling because of a family dispute over his marriage to Mary Julia Watts of whom his family disapproved. Daisy had continued to use the "Lide" spelling until her marriage.

Details of Hengist Saxon King's family