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Family Subtree Diagram : ...Beatrice de Saye (1169)

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   1. Abbrev: GEDCOM File : mwballard.ged
      Title: Mark Willis Ballard, GEDCOM File : mwballard.ged
      Note:
      6928 N. Lakewood Avenue
      773-743-6663
      mwballard52@yahoo.com  1169 - 1197 Beatrice De Saye 28 28 0985 Gerald de Flaitel Sources:

   1. Abbrev: Pullen010502.FTW
      Title: Pullen010502.FTW
      Note:
      Call number:
      Text: Date of Import: Jan 5, 2002


Title: Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, 7th Edition, by Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Shippard Jr., 1999
Page: 184-1 1003 Herleva D'Evereaux 0970 - 1034 Ansfred Unfroi le Goz 64 64 1030 - 1092 Hugh de Grentemesnil 62 62 1035 - 1091 Adeliza de Beaumont 56 56 1070 Agnes de Grentemesnil 1072 Rohese de Grentemesnil 1070 Robert de Courcy 1005 - 1059 Yves Ivo de Beaumont 54 54 1008 - 1099 Judith Adela de Gournay 91 91 1040 - 1091 Beatrix de Beaumont 51 51 0975 - 1022 Ivan Bellomontensis 47 47 0980 - 1039 Gisele Chevreuse 59 59 D. 1035 Yves Bellomontensis Yves of Ham Gisela Fouchard of Ham Ivo 0985 - 1074 Hugh de Gournay 89 89 0960 Hugh de Gournay 0940 Hugh de Gournay 1115 - 1144 William de Say 29 29 # Note:

    It has been suggested that the family derived its name from Sai, about two miles SE of Argentin in Normandy, though there is no substantial evidence for this. Certainly William de Say, possibly a Norman, married by 1098 Agnes, daughter of Hugh de Grentmesnil.

# Note:

    But the known pedigree originates with another William de Say, granted his (probably dead) father's lands in a charter of the Empress Maud between Christmas 1141 and June 1142; joined his brother-in-law Geoffrey de Mandeville, 1st Earl of Essex of the 1140 creation, in rebellion against Stephen 1144; married Beatrice (died 19 April 1197 or some year before it), daughter of William de Mandeville, sister of 1st Earl of Essex and divorced wife of Hugh Talebot, and was allegedly killed in an attack on Burwell Castle, Cambs, along with his brother-in-law, 1st Earl of Essex Aug 1144, though he may well have died later. [Burke's Peerage]

# Note:
Note: Magna Charta Sureties has Geoffrey de Mandeville dead 14 Sep 1144. Also note that I have this William as a grandson of William de Say & Agnes de Grentmesnil.

# Note:

    William de Say, son of William de Say, and grandson of William de Say, who came into England with the Conqueror. He m. Beatrix, the divorced wife of Hugh Talbot, and dau. of Geoffrey de Mandeville, Earl of Essex, sister of Godfrey, and aunt, and eventually heiress of William de Mandeville, Earls of Essex, by whom he had issue, William and Geoffrey. [Sir Bernard Burke, Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages, Burke's Peerage, Ltd., London, 1883, p. 476, Saye, or Say, Barons Saye]

# Note:

    "William de Say I is chiefly known as an associate of Geoffrey de Mandeville, 1st Earl of Essex, in his last revolt, with Hugh Bigod, against Stephen in 1144. In the 2nd charter of the Empress Maud to the Earl, issued between Christmas 1141 and the end of June 1142, William was given a special grant of his father's lands. According to Henry of Huntingdon, he was killed with the Earl in Aug. 1144 when, after occupying Ramsey Abbey, they were attacking Stephen's fort at Burwell, Cambs. but there is evidence that William surv. the Earl. He m. Beatrice, divorced wife of Hugh Talebot, sister of Earl Geoffrey above named, and da. of William de Mandeville." (CP XI-464-5)

 1135 - 1214 Geoffrey de Say 79 79 1094 Geoffrey de Say 1099 Hawise de Clare 1065 William de Say Title: Burke's Peerage & Baronetage, 106th Edition, Charles Mosley Editor-in-Chief, 1999
Page: 2555 1035 - 1098 Robert de Say 63 63 # Note: Say, Sai, of Shropshire.
# Note: Sai: Orne, arr. and cant. Argentan.
# Note:

    Picot, who was a substantial under-tenant of Earl Roger of Montgomery at Clun and elsewhere in Shropshire, is shown by the devolution of his lands to have been Picot de Say. Robert, Abbot of St-Martin de Sees granted the privilege of burial to Robert and Henry their sons; and in return Picot (as he is henceforth called) and his wife gave to the abbey "edificium matris Picot cum virgulto quod habebat juxta ecclesiam sancte Marie de Vrou" and confirmed a third of the church of Sai which Osmelinus de Sayo gave at the same time, giving also meadow land in the meadows "de Juvigneio"; the charter is subscribed by Earl Roger, Picot and his wife and two sons. "Vrou" is clearly Urou, the next parish to Sai, and Juvigni the parish immediately south of Sai. An agreement was made on 17 May 1086 in the court of Robert de Belleme between Picot de Saio and Droco de Coimis as to the dower which Droco's brother William had given to Adeloia his wife, who had been remarried to Picot. This is further evidence of Picot's tenure under the house of Montgomery-Belleme, and suggests that the charter to St-Martin de Sees was considerably later than 1060, the date to which it has been assigned. [Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families]

Title: The Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families, by Lewis C Loyd, 1999
Page: 96 1035 Adeloia 1058 - 1094 Robert FitzPicot de Say 36 36 King William sought aggressive types for the office of sheriff whoseambitions were consisten t with his. Those willing to squeeze the peasantsto their maximum were the best qualified i n William's eyes. He institutedthe practice of selling the office to the highest bidder. Thi s broughtforth evil men willing to pay exorbitant prices for the office and thenwilling to d o whatever it took to recoup their investment. . . No onespoke out for the peasantry becaus e their only representative to the kingwas the very sheriffs embezzling them. The most notori ous was Picot,Sheriff of Cambridgeshire. . . . Monks describe him as:

"a hungry lion, a prowling wolf, a crafty fox, a filthy swine, a dogwithout shame, who stuffe d his belly like an insatiable beast as thoughthe whole country were a single corpse."

Note: I assume that the above quote refers to Robert Fitz Picot, since hewas in Camberidgeshi re at the time of William the Conqueror.

King William sought aggressive types for the office of sheriff whoseambitions were consisten t with his. Those willing to squeeze the peasantsto their maximum were the best qualified i n William's eyes. He institutedthe practice of selling the office to the highest bidder. Thi s broughtforth evil men willing to pay exorbitant prices for the office and thenwilling to d o whatever it took to recoup their investment. . . No onespoke out for the peasantry becaus e their only representative to the kingwas the very sheriffs embezzling them. The most notori ous was Picot,Sheriff of Cambridgeshire. . . . Monks describe him as:

"a hungry lion, a prowling wolf, a crafty fox, a filthy swine, a dogwithout shame, who stuffe d his belly like an insatiable beast as thoughthe whole country were a single corpse."

Note: I assume that the above quote refers to Robert Fitz Picot, since hewas in Camberidgeshi re at the time of William the Conqueror. 1000 Robert FitzPicot de Say 1045 - 1086 William de Say 41 41 Picot, who was a substantial under-tenant of Earl Roger of Montgomery at Clun and elsewhere in Shropshire, is shown by the devolution of his lands to have been Picot de Say. Robert, Abbot of St-Martin de Sees granted the privilege of burial to Robert and Henry their sons; and in return Picot (as he is henceforth called) and his wife gave to the abbey "edificium matris Picot cum virgulto quod habebat juxta ecclesiam sancte Marie de Vrou" and confirmed a third of the church of Sai which Osmelinus de Sayo gave at the same time, giving also meadow land in the meadows "de Juvigneio"; the charter is subscribed by Earl Roger, Picot and his wife and two sons. "Vrou" is clearly Urou, the next parish to Sai, and Juvigni the parish immediately south of Sai. An agreement was made on 17 May 1086 in the court of Robert de Belleme between Picot de Saio and Droco de Coimis as to the dower which Droco's brother William had given to Adeloia his wife, who had been remarried to Picot. This is further evidence of Picot's tenure under the house of Montgomery-Belleme, and suggests that the charter to St-Martin de Sees was considerably later than 1060, the date to which it has been assigned. [Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families]
 1030 Saher de Say 1066 Dougall de Seton 0920 Renaud de Gournay # Note:

Title: The Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families, by Lewis C Loyd, 1999
Page: 47
Text: location only - no dates 0900 Hugh de Gournay 1032 - 1104 Agnes de Beaumont 72 72 1040 Gerard de Gournay Baron of Yarmouth
Gerard de Gournay, Baron of Yarmouth, was a grand Seigncur. He married Edith, daughter of William, Earl of Varenne in France, and 1st Earl of Warren and Surrey, in England, so created by William, the Conqueror, with whom he came to England in 1066. They had five children: Hugues III, Gautier, Anseau, Gonnor and Gundred. He went on the First Crusade and died on the way home on the 8th of May, 1097. Edith, who had accompanied him, was taken back to Normandy by Drogon, a Chevallier and friend of Gerard, who after married her, and they had a son. Drogon had rich manoirs of his own, but Henry I, of England, under pretense of danger to Gerard's children, put senechals in all their manoirs, took their fortresses, and took Gerard's children to himself. Of the above children their daughter, Gundred de Gournay, married Nigel d'Albini, and Gonner.
(Kin of Mellcene Thurman Smith, page 469)
 1142 - 1177 William De Saye 35 35 1000 - 1098 Basilie Basita Flaitel 98 98 1105 - 1177 Beatrix de Mandeville 72 72 0907 Ansfred Rollosson 1045 - 1084 Amice de Grentemesnil 39 39 sister of Robert de Mowbray, Earl of Northumberland,

A sister of Bishop Geoffrey de Montbray, was mother by Roger d'Aubigny (of Aubigny in the Cotentin) of two sons, Nigel and William, who were ardent supporters of Henry I, and were rewarded by him with great estates in England. William was made king's butler, and was father of William d'Aubigny (de Albini), first earl of Arundel; Nigel was rewarded with the escheated fief of Geoffrey de la Guerche, of which Melton (Mowbray) was the head, and with forfeited lands in Yorkshire. Nigel married, by dispensation, the wife of his cousin, the imprisoned earl, but afterwards divorced her, and by another wife was father of a son Roger, who took the name of Mowbray.
(Wikipedia)
 1143 - 1214 William of Scotland 71 71 William I (Wm. the Lion, Wm. Leo, Wm. Dunkeld and Wm. Canmore, I), king of Scotland (r. 1165-1214), was born in 1143. He succeeded Malcolm IV.

William is believed to be the founder of Arbroath Abbey where the Declaration of Arbroath was later drawn up. He was known as the Lion because of his flag, or standard, a red lion rampant on a yellow background. This went on to become the Royal standard of Scotland and is still used today by the British Monarch when in Scotland.

William also arranged the Auld Alliance, the first treaty for mutual self defence between nations. The treaty was agreed by Scotland, France, and Norway. Although Norway never took much part in it, it played some part in Franco-Scottish affairs until 1746.

William also inherited the title of Earl of Northumbria in 1152. However he was forced to give up this title to King Henry II of England in 1157. This caused trouble after William became king, since he spent a lot of effort trying to regain Northumbria. In 1174 during a raid in support of the revolt by Henry's wife and sons, William was captured by Henry's troops and taken in chains to Northampton, and then transferred to Falaise in Normandy. Henry then sent an army to Scotland and occupied it. As ransom and to regain his kingdom, William had to acknowledge Henry as his feudal superior and agree to pay for the cost of the English army's occupation of Scotland by taxing the Scots. This he did by signing the Treaty of Falaise. He was then allowed to return to Scotland. The Treaty of Falaise remained in force for the next fifteen years. At the end of that time the new English king, Richard the Lionheart, agreed to terminate it in return for 10,000 silver marks. Richard needed the money to take part in the Third Crusade.

William died in Stirling on the 4th December 1214 and was buried in Arbroath Abbey. He was succeeded by his son, Alexander II.


William the Lion (1143-1214), king of Scotland (1165-1214). He was a grandson of King David I and the brother of Malcolm IV, whom he succeeded. After a quarrel with King Henry II of England, William concluded an alliance between Scotland and France in 1168. In 1173, with King Louis VII of France, he aided Henry's sons in their unsuccessful rebellion against their father. William invaded Northumberland, and the next year, while raiding the countryside near Alnwick, he was captured by the English, who took him to Normandy (Normandie). He was able to obtain his freedom only by assenting to the Treaty of Falaise, which acknowledged Henry as overlord of Scotland. In 1188 William secured a papal bull guaranteeing the independence of the Scottish church from that of England, and in 1189 Henry's son Richard, who had succeeded him as king, annulled the Treaty of Falaise, surrendering all claims to suzerainty over Scotland in return for a large payment. William was succeeded by his son, Alexander II.

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Sources:

   1. Abbrev: GEDCOM File : mwballard.ged
      Title: Mark Willis Ballard, GEDCOM File : mwballard.ged
      Note:
      6928 N. Lakewood Avenue
      773-743-6663
      mwballard52@yahoo.com  1064 - 1118 Ivo de Grantmesnil 54 54 1064 - 1118 Ives de Grentemesnil 54 54 0990 - 1039 Robert de Grentmesnil 49 49 1007 Hawise d'Eschafour 1024 Robert de Grentmesnil 1032 Adeliza de Grentmesnil 1034 Arnold de Grentmesnil 0960 Gervase le Breton 0968 - 1020 Giroie le Goz 52 52 0972 Gisela Bertrand de Montfort 1002 Arnoul Giroie d'Eschafour 1004 Herembergh Giroie d'Eschafour 1006 Guillaume Giroie d'Eschafour 1008 Fulk Giroie d'Eschafour 1010 Robert Giroie de Saint Cyneri 1012 Emma d'Eschafour 1014 Ralph Giroie d'Eschafour 1016 Hugh Giroie d'Eschafour 1018 Adelaide d'Eschafour 1020 Giroie d'Eschafour 0935 - 0978 Toustien le Goz 43 43 0945 Judith de Montanolier 0928 - 0997 Touissant de Briquibec 69 69 0930 Juliane Murdac 0960 Adeline de Montfort 0971 Thurstan de Montfort 0975 Hugh de Montfort 1052 Robert de Grentmesnil 1014 Agnes Ermentrude Flaitel 1038 Picot de Say 0983 Picot de Say 1130 - 1192 Guy de Chevreuse 62 62 0880 - 0910 Eudes de Gournay 30 30 0960 Girard Flaitel 0910 - 1032 Helloe of Beulac 122 122 0900 Geoffrey Murdac Generated by GenoPro®. Click here for details.